Hard to explain steering issue

[FiendScurro]

Well I will attempt to explain it.
First off the problem has been there since I bought it 40k ago. Since then I had new end links rack and pinion and power steering pump and new design steering shaft. It recently has gotten worse.

So ill describe it as steering wheel play but it's not play in the traditional sense of moving the wheel and getting no wheel movement.
From center I have about a half inch on both sides or more where there is almost no resistance. While looking at the wheels they move ever so slightly within that range both while parked and driving. It makes it hard to drive straight because there is no resistance unless I have a death grip on wheel and my knee under it. Otherwise I'm always going back and forth in that area to keep it straight. What am I missing?
I have had it looked at every oil change they shake it down, everything looks and feels tight. Steering is nice and tight past the center inch or so. It's actually more noticeable after new shaft since it's tighter. It just feels sloppy on Highway and I want to make sure it's not a hazard.

[crash93ssei]

New or used rack and pinion?
Inner and outer tie rods good / replaced too?


Check ball joints and front control arm bushings on the front end then also give the rear end a very thorough run through. Bad rear shocks seem to play hell with these cars as to bad rear toe links, either will cause your car to feel loose and very unstable on center as well as feel sloppy in turns.

[FiendScurro]

Acdelco reman. Inner tie rods new with rack. Outer are greased and in good shape. Not sure on control arms.
Back has new mounts and shocks and just did sway bar links. Lateral arms look good but I do plan to replace them this summer.
I know it's not the same comparison but if you drive a 05 grand prix or 07 G6 the steering is tight 360 degrees. Since the tires move when i jiggle steering, why would there be no resistance? I just end up bouncing between both sides from center.

Steering and ride feel is 100% on turns.

[MKMike]

Are you sure that your front struts are OK?
Bad struts will affect how the car handles.

[FiendScurro]

Im not sure if struts would effect turning resistance. Could it be something in the steering column? Bearing? I know the rack is newer but is it possible that it is causing it?

[FiendScurro]

Update from drive home. In order to go straight my wheel has to be about 1/2 inch off center and if I let go of wheel it trends to the right most of the time. It takes constant pressure to keept car straight. I think I'm out of alignment. And looking at possibly ball joints or outer tie rods.

[RJolly87]

Alignment is a good start.

We had a Taurus with this problem. We never figured out what the issue was, but it felt like it was between the rack and the wheel. If the alignment doesn't hammer it out, you will likely have to have some one playing with the wheel while you look over every inch of the steering linkage.

[KM AXer]

There are (Proprietary) terms among the engineering and testing staffs of the car companies for the on-center/near center feeling of the steering. Those are used to describe the torque (or lack of) required to cross in and out of that middle area where little actual response from the steered wheels is noted, and sometimes including the first few degrees of steered wheel actuation. (whew, that reads like geek-speak)

The basics are: Expectations vs. perceived feel varies greatly across types of vehicles. The expected "feel" of the effort required to turn the steering wheel of a Corvette is drastically different from what would be expected of a '90's Buick. And the anticipated response to input is also wildly different. What you describe is a lack of any torque required to move across neutral area from the right and left working/turning areas of the steering wheel motion.

Yes, start with the alignment. Caster has a HUGE effect on steering effort and feel. If the car has ever been popped down low in the front (run over a curb at more than a crawl), it may never be possible to get that back to spec without replacing the subframe and attached bits.

I laugh to remember what an engineer told me of a temporary "cure" used several decades ago: There simply was not enough torque required to move across the center area of the steering wheel angles for a specific car. The total system lacked proper resistance to movement. So, for a little while, they used what was essentially a heavy piece of fabric wrapped around the steering column, and attached to the lower firewall, to cause drag/increase effort/kill the loose or disconnected feeling. It was nicknamed "(Proprietary term)" .... Think "Senor Abrasion"... DISCLAIMER: I have worked for all 3 of the USA automakers, and I'll not be identifying which one that came from. Also, note that if I ever knew, I have long forgotten the exact model of car/truck where the band-aid was used, and that the storyteller was relating a memory from "The Old Days".

[FiendScurro]

It did get hit low, curb direct hit to rim. Replaced subframe. As it was bent. No difference before and after.

[FiendScurro]

Ill put the front up and check inner and outer tie rods tomorrow if it doesnt snow again. Replace what is needed and get alignment.

[MKMike]

Im not sure if struts would effect turning resistance. Could it be something in the steering column? Bearing? I know the rack is newer but is it possible that it is causing it?

Actually, failing strut bearings can and do cause an increase in turning resistance and a bent strut may also cause increased resistance only in some positions.
A strut which offers excessive resistance on bumps can cause the car to not track well, and ones which allow the wheels to bounce excessively can affect steering as well.

A rebuild is only as good as the person doing the work.
If they fail to recognize a problem with the rack or a replacement part, then you get a poor rebuild.
It would seem unlikely as a cause, since the problem was the same prior to the rack being replaced.

Sadly, most mechanics I've encountered in my area fail to be able to recognize excessive play in control arms due to worn bushings. This included dealership mechanics.
A pull towards one side can certainly indicate a failing front end component, although I would suspect that the original problem is something other than worn balljoints, which typically fail catastrophically long before being able to log an additional 40K miles on them.
A bent steering component, such as a strut or control arm would last this long, however.
A mechanic with a reasonable amount of knowledge should have been able to recognize a bent front end component during an alignment, though.
Unfortunately, there are plenty of mechanics whose skills or interest in thorough diagnosis of problems are lacking.
I would certainly expect a copy of the alignment readings both before and after the adjustments are made.

Regardless of what the problem is, I hope you get it sorted out soon and will let us know what the offending part or parts were.

[FiendScurro]

I agree that the strut mounts could increase resistance but in my case there is no resistance for an inch in center. Only reason I said it's unlikely to be an issue. Given that I'm pulling right however it could mean that something is wrong with the mounts or struts. I'm heading to alignment shop this morning. I was going to check components myself but they CN do it all there.

[MKMike]

What I had wondered is if the lack of resistance that you feel in some wheel positions is actually the normal amount of resistance but it feels too loose because of the excessive resistance in other wheel positions.

Anyhow, as I've said, I hope this can get sorted out ASAP.

[FiendScurro]

Well initial tests are in. Joints are all tight. I was toed in both fronts and alignment did not help my pull right. I probably should not have gotten it. They say I might have bent right strut.



Thoughts?

[FiendScurro]

Also, when I measured road to fendor, the front right is taller then left by 1/4 inch.

[RJolly87]

What manner was the curb hit? Straight on, at an angle?

I am having a hard time saying that struts are a bad idea at this point, especially after seeing the alignment sheet, knowing it took a hit, etc. It would also be an opportunity to get the front camber in spec as well.

If the car never had an alignment after steering bits were replaced (inner tie rods I think you mentioned) that may be to blame for the bad toe.

[FiendScurro]

It was alighned after rack went in last july. That was the last time I did any work so what you see happened on its own. Wheel hit curb while turned left and it was a flush hit. Rim was not damaged. Subframe was bent pretty bad where control arm connects. Drove fine after repair at collision shop. I think ill replace struts and mounts. Any idea why the right front is higher then left?

[RJolly87]

The caster may have something to do with that, as that is the angle from the top suspension point to the front wheel. It could also be suspension sag to, as the drivers side always has somebody in it, and the rest of the car may not. Do both front wheels set center of the wheel well? Or is the right front pushed towards the back?

[FiendScurro]

ill hace to check when i get home. Working 7-7 today.

[FiendScurro]

Update.

Just put new struts in. Still pulls to right. I haven't tested it yet but I think it might be a steering rack issue. I was told if I jack it up and turn it on and the tires move to the right on its own its the rack.
This is so frustrating even though my struts did need replacing.