Running in circles. Warm power loss. Dies sometimes.

[Christopher1watson]

I caught something early on here just now.

Platinum plugs (particularly bosch) are a known problem in waste-spark ignition systems like ours. Go copper or irridium. That could still be part (or all) of your problem. Even if it isn't, it will be in a short period of time.

This has crossed my mind.

But, It was doing it with the factory recommended AC Delco's. I've had some amazing cures by removing platinum plugs. They can affect timeing. Among others. I'd stay away from Bosch platinums.

The platinum plug problems I've dealt with were not temperature related. The autos all ran worse after tune up. Nothing temp. related.

I may change them back to AC Delcos. Not seeing it, though. It's 20 degrees outside, now. I could drive it all day in this weather. Has to be 70 degree's or, above to act up.

But, yes. I'm well aware of platinum plug problems. I still have the old Ac's that came out of it. They are worn. I believe(It's been a while) I changed them to the platinums because, I was having this problem. It has Autolights in it now.

Thanks. Platinum plug problems can be a real headache. But, I'm not missfireing.

God Bless,

Chris

[Christopher1watson]

What did Silverbullet's car do when it got warmed up? I can't remember if his died totally or just lost power. His was a bad fuse connection somewhere...? Just a thought.

I am almost positve it's a open power or, ground feed.

Don't see intermitant open for sure. It would have to be a temperature related intermittant open wire. Temperature related wires rubbed through and, touching or, oil soaked wires touching. Maybe. Not much oil on this assembly.. This acts like the PCM is getting hot from a backfeed problem from an open. Like maybe the ICM is overheating from a open wire. Or, the Fuel pump relay is doing this sort of thing. My pump did sound funny friday when I was checking it. Instead of a steady hum. It started sounding like it was starting and, stopping. Car did act up. Lost some power. Turned it off and, restarted and, it dissappeared on me. Was only 50 outside. And, I had it running for 2 hrs. In the yard trying to get it to act up. Just did it that one time. So, I turned it off restarted took of. Went away. May have been the airflow. Cooled it down. I had it sitting here idling for 2 hrs. No air. But, it started acting up. I could here the pump making an up and, down sound. Not it's usual hum. May be a few days till I can get it to act up again. It's ice storming outside now.

I get no problems do to bumps or, turns. Nothing indicated by wiggling wires, either.

I'm chewing it in my mind. PCM which as far as I know is controlling the Fuel Pump relay. May be giving me a clue with the on off sound of my fuel pump the other day. I had pulled the back seat out to here the fuel pump better.

But. I switched the PCM and, Control Modules with no change to this problem. And, pulled the tank twice. Once to inspect the fuel pump. Then, to put in a new fuel pump.

When it happens. It acts like my fuel pressure went from 50 to 10.

On a cold day. It never acts up. I can drive it forever when cold. So, it can't be a restiction. Unless, it's a temp related one. Even, a funky fuel filter. Like an intermittant blockage/loose internal part is extremely unlikely. It would do it cold. Besides. It did it with the old fuel filter. I changed it. No change.

God Bless,

Chris

[Christopher1watson]

Wow... I actually read all your post(s) and yes, you DID replace the crank sensor.

Are you aware of the PCM ground that is under the ICM? The plate (the ICM mounts on) is mounted to the motor on 2 studs on the engine (they face the battery). One stud is the ground point for the battery. The OTHER is where the PCM gets its ground. There are 2 nuts on the stud; 1 holds the plate to the motor; the other, outer, one holds the ground wires. I have encountered a problem on mine where, if the inner nut is not torqued down, it will allow wiggle in the PCM ground, even if the outer one IS torqued.

If that's not it, is there any way you could see/monitor your fuel pressure, driving, as the engine slows down?
I have experienced a similar problem (on a non-related vehicle) due to a fuel line feed restriction; which was actually different, being speed related. In my garage, etc., the fuel pressure would be fine, since it was a flow problem.

I've been in this area.

It's factory assembled. I've been down to the plate. These wires are buried. I didn't notice a third wire. Interesting. I'll remove the plate and, check it out. The main ground feed and, wire back to the fender check good. I didn't know there was a third wire. It's tough to see in that area. So, I'll remove the plate when it get's decent outside. Ice storm here, now. But, yes. A missing gound feed to the PCM is a great candidate. Maybe it's broke. I'll look into it. May be a day, or 2. I'll get back on this one. It's really not that hard to check. And, if it's hidden. And, I don't know it's there. It's a new check. Hmmmmm. Very interesting. I don't see a wiggle here. But, an open would do it. Like a broken wire. Wiggles respond to bumps. It's a warm problem. Bumps have never affected it. And, to expand. If, it bumped open. What closes it every time it cools?? I'll find the wire you write of. Inspect it hard. And, get back.

Thanks for the quality read. Sounds like you've been in the Manuels before. Must read carefully. Else. How would you know if the manuel had a mistake. Which BTW. Some, do.

Sorry. This is out of order. I read it. But, accidently missed it responding.

God Bless,

Chris

[bobfather99]

The ICM ground was the ground I was referring to, not the ground on the fender.
Sorry for the confusion.

[93RedSled-SSE]

I've been in this area.

It's factory assembled. I've been down to the plate. These wires are buried. I didn't notice a third wire. Interesting. I'll remove the plate and, check it out. The main ground feed and, wire back to the fender check good. I didn't know there was a third wire. It's tough to see in that area. So, I'll remove the plate when it get's decent outside. Ice storm here, now. But, yes. A missing gound feed to the PCM is a great candidate. Maybe it's broke. I'll look into it. May be a day, or 2. I'll get back on this one. It's really not that hard to check. And, if it's hidden. And, I don't know it's there. It's a new check. Hmmmmm. Very interesting. I don't see a wiggle here. But, an open would do it. Like a broken wire. Wiggles respond to bumps. It's a warm problem. Bumps have never affected it. And, to expand. If, it bumped open. What closes it every time it cools?? I'll find the wire you write of. Inspect it hard. And, get back.

There is a plastic cover (extreme left in the drawing below) that may be hiding the PCM ground which connects at G100 in the picture.
The other stud, G102 is the one that has the main ground cable on it, from the battery. Hope that helps.

[Christopher1watson]

I've been in this area.

It's factory assembled. I've been down to the plate. These wires are buried. I didn't notice a third wire. Interesting. I'll remove the plate and, check it out. The main ground feed and, wire back to the fender check good. I didn't know there was a third wire. It's tough to see in that area. So, I'll remove the plate when it get's decent outside. Ice storm here, now. But, yes. A missing gound feed to the PCM is a great candidate. Maybe it's broke. I'll look into it. May be a day, or 2. I'll get back on this one. It's really not that hard to check. And, if it's hidden. And, I don't know it's there. It's a new check. Hmmmmm. Very interesting. I don't see a wiggle here. But, an open would do it. Like a broken wire. Wiggles respond to bumps. It's a warm problem. Bumps have never affected it. And, to expand. If, it bumped open. What closes it every time it cools?? I'll find the wire you write of. Inspect it hard. And, get back.

There is a plastic cover (extreme left in the drawing below) that may be hiding the PCM ground which connects at G100 in the picture.
The other stud, G102 is the one that has the main ground cable on it, from the battery. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the Pic.

I figured it was buried under that cover from your description. It is the computer and, computer sensor ground. May ground the Control Module, too. I knew it had one most likely. Just about all GM cars have one. I just had know idea it was hidden behind the plate there. They are bad to be twisted off or, left off when repair work is done.

Thanks for the pic. As soon as this ice storm clears up. That's the first thing I'm going to check. I've repaired many of these types of grounds. They usually get twisted off because the stud will loosen before the nut does. Then alot of them just get left off. This car doesn't appear to have ever had the area messed with. But, it is hidden under the plate. I'll get on it as soon as I can take the cold. Car has 3 inches of ice on it, now. LOL. And, it's 19 outside. Wished I still had my shop. I'll update as soon as I can see/check it. Tell everybody if it was open or, still in place. If, it's still in place. I'll clean it for test driveing. If, it's open. Well. Could be the problem

Thanks again and, God Bless,

Chris

[timothy_nd28]

Wow, what a book you have written. Have you checked the grounds? Joking! I had a similar problem not that long ago with my car. It would idle great, but when it warmed up, all went to hell fast. Absolutely no power, had the car WOT, and barely had enough power to creep the car back into my heated garage! Before all this happened, I replaced the harmonic balancer for the same reason your thinking about doing yours. "which I'm still unsure if you did or didn't in your car?" The new harmonic balancer off of Ebay turned out to be a certified POS. All went well when installing the harmonic balancer and was pleased with the repair. A very short time later, I had a power-loss problem and overheating. I had plenty of power when it was cold, but it heated up quickly. The problem progressed very quickly after each consecutive start. Towards the last few run times, I noticed the exhaust manifold glowing orange,,this was from a cold engine to about 3 mins of run time,,,and just idling! I found the harmonic balancer shaft/socket had cracked and fractured, causing the whole harmonic balancer to rotate 15degress advanced. Each time I started the car, the harmonic balancer would shift an additonal degree or more. I got some super weird sounds in the intake, and some backfiring. I believe this is your problem in some way. Your timing is running advanced. Is this the factory harmonic balancer on your car? I think you mentioned that you replaced the crank shaft sensor already, so you had to have that balancer off at one point before. You mentioned trouble with getting that huge ass harmonic balancer bolt off. I'm not sure how the board feels about this, but I used a 1/2" breaker bar on the bolt, and the other end against the ground. Disconnected the ICM connector and bumped the starter. Worked great for me, considering I used that red loctite on the bolt when I installed the Ebay POS balancer earlier.
I would concentrate all efforts to the harmonic balancer area. Something is up in that area, and you need to take it all apart and inspect that balancer and key.

Now the variable to this equation is the fuel. I haven't really payed much attention to the cycle rates of my fuel pump, but you mentioned something about 50 psi down to 10? And clear audible un-natural sounds? They beauty of this, from what it sounds like, this is a very consistant problem, and you can count on the failure in short amounts of time. Low fuel to the injectors could cause it to run extremely lean, with the loss of power as you stated.
Just how long can the car sit at idle, before you start hearing this fuel pump singing? And when the fuel pump starts to sing, thats when your pressure begins to rise and fall? Just to rule out the electrical side of this,,try disconnecting the fuel pump (electrically) as a test,,and hard wire it straight to the battery, with heavy guage speaker wire. Drive the car to see if it fixed your problem. If it overheats and looses power, then you can rule out your grounds and + supply to everything. The problem would be a faulty fuel pump, plugged fuel filter, plugged fuel regulator,, maybe a squashed fuel line from a hydraulic jack? By ensuring you have a good 12v supply to the fuel pump, with good guage speaker wire, and you still have fluxuations with fuel pressure, means that your pump is dead heading against something, and the pump is overheating. My fuel lines rusted out, and I found a ton of rust in the fuel regulator screen. Run the test to help isolate your problem

Good luck

[Christopher1watson]

Wow, what a book you have written. Have you checked the grounds? Joking! I had a similar problem not that long ago with my car. It would idle great, but when it warmed up, all went to hell fast. Absolutely no power, had the car WOT, and barely had enough power to creep the car back into my heated garage! Before all this happened, I replaced the harmonic balancer for the same reason your thinking about doing yours. "which I'm still unsure if you did or didn't in your car?" The new harmonic balancer off of Ebay turned out to be a certified POS. All went well when installing the harmonic balancer and was pleased with the repair. A very short time later, I had a power-loss problem and overheating. I had plenty of power when it was cold, but it heated up quickly. The problem progressed very quickly after each consecutive start. Towards the last few run times, I noticed the exhaust manifold glowing orange,,this was from a cold engine to about 3 mins of run time,,,and just idling! I found the harmonic balancer shaft/socket had cracked and fractured, causing the whole harmonic balancer to rotate 15degress advanced. Each time I started the car, the harmonic balancer would shift an additonal degree or more. I got some super weird sounds in the intake, and some backfiring. I believe this is your problem in some way. Your timing is running advanced. Is this the factory harmonic balancer on your car? I think you mentioned that you replaced the crank shaft sensor already, so you had to have that balancer off at one point before. You mentioned trouble with getting that huge ass harmonic balancer bolt off. I'm not sure how the board feels about this, but I used a 1/2" breaker bar on the bolt, and the other end against the ground. Disconnected the ICM connector and bumped the starter. Worked great for me, considering I used that red loctite on the bolt when I installed the Ebay POS balancer earlier.
I would concentrate all efforts to the harmonic balancer area. Something is up in that area, and you need to take it all apart and inspect that balancer and key.

Now the variable to this equation is the fuel. I haven't really payed much attention to the cycle rates of my fuel pump, but you mentioned something about 50 psi down to 10? And clear audible un-natural sounds? They beauty of this, from what it sounds like, this is a very consistant problem, and you can count on the failure in short amounts of time. Low fuel to the injectors could cause it to run extremely lean, with the loss of power as you stated.
Just how long can the car sit at idle, before you start hearing this fuel pump singing? And when the fuel pump starts to sing, thats when your pressure begins to rise and fall? Just to rule out the electrical side of this,,try disconnecting the fuel pump (electrically) as a test,,and hard wire it straight to the battery, with heavy guage speaker wire. Drive the car to see if it fixed your problem. If it overheats and looses power, then you can rule out your grounds and + supply to everything. The problem would be a faulty fuel pump, plugged fuel filter, plugged fuel regulator,, maybe a squashed fuel line from a hydraulic jack? By ensuring you have a good 12v supply to the fuel pump, with good guage speaker wire, and you still have fluxuations with fuel pressure, means that your pump is dead heading against something, and the pump is overheating. My fuel lines rusted out, and I found a ton of rust in the fuel regulator screen. Run the test to help isolate your problem

Good luck

Thanks.

I've been looking into these items.

I suspect the Fuel pump driver in the PCM is overheating. So, as soon as it warms up. I'm checking the PCM/Sensor ground on the front of the engine.

It doesn't have a fuel restriction. Did it with the old fuel filter. Still does it with the new one. Did it with the old fuel pump. Does it with new fuel pump. I've inspect the fuel lines. Nothing there.

The balancer.

They are locktighted and, torqued to somewhere around 300 ft lbs. I had to use a 6 ft cheater. I have had mine off. Replaced the CPS. Inspected the balancer. It has some fairly bad cracks in it. It has not slipped. And, the key is in place. I'm looking for a newer one. Like a brand new one at the pull it yourself salvage yard. It has been a eye opening experience. I found several. Most of them old and the rubber is cracking. I found a fairly nice on. Removed the crank bolt. But, you can't start the cars in the yard. No keys or, batteries in them. As, for mine. I've used a starter to break alot of balancer bolts loose. Didn't work for mine. Anyway. Back to the one I was after. I go to install my puller. And, I can only get 2 of the puller bolts in the balancer. One of the holes was blocked by the iron center piece. So, off looking for one that I can get all 3 bolts in. Looked at about 40 more. Same problem. Finally. Found a brand new one. Some had installed on the Oldsmobile. I get all 3 bolts in it. So, I go to remove the crank bolt. With my Lady holding the flexplate. I start trying to back off the bolt. It was so tight. It broke my half inch drive extension in 2. So, I still don't have a nicer/newer balance. But, I'm going back to get one with 3/4 drive tools.

I'm aware that these balancers come apart. Had one shell out on my 92 century 3.3. Took out my CPS when it did it. It was not as big of a headache to repair.

But, yes. Movement in the balancers for the 92 to 94 3.8's happens. I was a little suprised that most of them I couldn;t get my puller bolts in. I can get all 3 bolts into mine. It pulls right off. Not sure how to get one off with only 2 bolts. Without destroying the balance. Maybe you could use a die grinder with a long straight bit and grind the metal over hanging the threads to get the third bolts in. So, if you're looking for a balancer. Make sure you can get all 3 puller bolts in it before you waist you time breaking the crank bolt loose.

If my balancer had slipped. The car would run bad all the time. My car only runs bad when at least 70 outside and, after extended driveing times. It runs like a new one cold.

I'm after a factory balancer. Preferable a new one on a 3.8 in the yard. The 95 and ups are different. Not sure if they will interchage. The rubber in them is generally in better shape. But, unless I know if you could interchange them. I'm looking for a 93 or 94. One that was recently changed before the auto ended up in the yard. A new one is over 3 hundred. Not sure what jobber is on it. I don't get that anymore. I won't install a after market replacement on it. I know better.

It's 9 outside. Plum chilly. It's supposed to get to 32. I may go out and check my harness grounds under the harness gaurd plate under the ICM. If, the sun comes out and, it warms up some.

Note diagrams above. Those 2 wires under the plate. I have not checked them. So, that's my next move. It's supposed to warm up by Thurs. A whopping 55. I'll check them for sure by then.

Back with results of harness ground wire check soon. I've seen alot of problems from these grounds. Mine are hidden. Didn't know they were there. Even though I was looking for them. I don't believe it's ever been apart there. And, usually you have a problem with them when some one work in this area. Like twisting them off disassembling or, forgetting to reinstall them during reassembly.

God Bless,

Chris

[93RedSled-SSE]

A side note regarding removing the Harmonic Balancer, especially for others reading this; Gearhead Bill Buttermore has posted a detailed procedure in Tech Info under Mechanical>Engine, if/when you cannot do it with an air impact. I had to resort to his method on mine. It was a life saver and I lost no hair over the deal. Lots of pix and tips.
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... =53&t=8267

[Christopher1watson]

A side note regarding removing the Harmonic Balancer, especially for others reading this; Gearhead Bill Buttermore has posted a detailed procedure in Tech Info under Mechanical>Engine, if/when you cannot do it with an air impact. I had to resort to his method on mine. It was a life saver and I lost no hair over the deal. Lots of pix and tips.
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... =53&t=8267

That is good information.

I'd go with the 3/4 inch drive. And, yes. You need a long extension. The jack stand is a good idea. Hopefully you won't damage the flexplate. And, for sure. Make sure the auto is up on several stands and, on solid ground. This bolt is tight.

As, an add in for the bolts. Without the specific size. You could be trying to figure out which ones to use. There is a special tool. (size noted in article thanks. I saw the size to get. Could have saved some money here. I have a snap on Harmonic Balancer Puller. But, had no idea what size the threads were. Very hard to see inside that there Balancer) Could have saved a little money. But, my special tool bottoms each bolt evenly. No worry about an uneven pull.

Sold at Oreilly's and, various other places. It's a Lisle 45300 Harmonic Balancer puller for GM 3300 and, 3800 v6 engines. The bolts are studded. So, if you put them in all the way. You don't have to worry about unevenly applied force.

But, as a side note. There are still problems with getting all three bolts in many of these balancers. One of the bolt holes is block by an internal metal peice in the balancer. So, you may need to have a modified bolt for this hole. Or, a grinder to get in there and, grind the metal from over the bolt hole.

I'm fixing to go out and, check my harness grounds by my ICM mounting plate. Just as soon as it warms up some more. Suns out. That helps alot. It's still only 28. But, the sun makes a big difference.

If anyone knows why one of the bolt holes is blocked out on many of these balancers. I'm curious to know. I just looked at 50 or, more of them 2 weeks age. And, could only get all three puller bolts in two of them.

Thanks for the post. You may have helped alot of people.

God Bless,

Chris

[Christopher1watson]

Ok.

I've checked the grounds under the ICM Plate.

They are clean and, tight.

So. I cleaned the stud bolt. With an electric wire wheel.

Wire brushed all 3 ground wires. Cleaned the nuts. And, reinstalled. I do not see a problem here.

I took pictures. But, I guess, I'll have to go post them on photo bucket to post them here. That sort of sucks. And, I took a picture of the beast, too. Hmmmmm. I'll see if I can upload that. Or, maybe I'll have to go to photoBucket to post that.

Anyhow. Don't see a problem with these 3 grounds. Clean and, tight.

Any other ideas????

God Bless,

Chris


This is the URL to the photos of the ground wires checked. You may have to copy and, paste it in your browser. I'm working on making my pics work, here. I think it's best to go to this album at photo Bucket to take up less space on this post.

http://s547.photobucket.com/albums/hh47 ... 2027%2009/

God Bless,

Chris

[Christopher1watson]

If anyone can tell me how to post into my 5000k of free pic posting on this site. Please enlighten me.

Please let me know where the link is.

I know how to use photobucket. But, I'm reading that I have free photo posting, here. I went to the administrators page. But, I don't see a mail link.' How do you ask the Administrator?? And, what do you have to do to put up a avitar pic??

I've already had people asking for pics of my car. And, I read that I can post pics related to my topic.

So, what gives with this??

How do I get to post my pics??? Besides using PhotoBucket?? Is that the only way to put my pics in this forum??

God Bless,

Chris

[swampthing]

i believe that all you have to do is copy the IMG code from your photobucket picture into whatever post you want the image to be in

[SingsCountry1967]

Instructions on posting pics is a sticky in the Your RIde section

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=146

[Christopher1watson]

Instructions on posting pics is a sticky in the Your RIde section

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=146

LOL.

Thanks.

I know how to use photo Bucket..

Hmmmmm. Post to photobucket. Copy and, paste the URL in my post. Wow. This site is behind the times. Not really the answer I was looking for. I could do that. I'm interested in my 5000k pic post link. And, an administrator to give me permission to post a pic of my car. On this site without useing photo bucket.

Needless, to write.

I'm trying to get a answer to my auto's problem. Now, I get alot of things I've already looked at and, a if you want to post. Go to photo Bucket. Post your pics. And, then...... You can put your URL's in your post. Hmmmmmmmm.

Thought, I'd bring this post up to speed with some pics. Got them. Easy enough. So, now, I can create an extra account. Hmmmm. Learn code. LOL.

OK. Enough. I'm after a electrical problem on my Bonne.

I'll share with my experiences. I'm not into being judged. I have limited access. Please tell me why???

I have the pics. I need a download link. Not to have to use a middle site. Sad.

It's tough enough going through all the wrong answers/supposed help, I have had to go through. As, if people could read????

The only thing I havn't done is buy a 300$ scanner. Why is it so hard to post a pic?? Make a album?? Is this a real site???

Go to photobucket???? HMMMMMMMMM. Maybe, I'm looking in the wrong place. Like, I can't read. Where's my free photo post???

I'll post the URL for the instructions. Underline it. What do I need for approval?? Please keep your smart A$$ comments off my post/

Quote. From this site.

1) Each registered account will receive 5000K of image hosting space to be used for imagery directly related to this site. This account will not be used for general picture hosting for non club related images. Images from gatherings or other non car images are permitted as long as they are for a topic posted on this forum.

Are you writing me to tell me that my 5000k has to be run through photobucket??? And, how do I contact the administrator that has no contact posted/????? So, I can use code. And, to work on my page???

I can read. At least at the level of a first grader/ Can you???


God Bless,

Chris

[SingsCountry1967]

I can read. At least at the level of a first grader/ Can you???
God Bless,
Chris

That was uncalled for. I was merely trying to help you out on your request "how do I post a picture". Sometimes, the message you are trying to relay, gets lost in the quantity of words you use. That was the case here.

I will let this jab at my intelligence pass since I chose not to read through all of your posts and I misunderstood your question. In essence, I guess I "had it coming" to some degree. But if you feel the need to combat my IQ in the future, send it in a PM. Respect for all members is requirement, regardless of their perceived intelligence level.

[Christopher1watson]

I can read. At least at the level of a first grader/ Can you???
God Bless,
Chris

That was entirely uncalled for. I was merely trying to help you out on your request "how do I post a picture". Sometimes, the message you are trying to relay, gets lost in the quantity of words you use. That was the case here.

I will let this jab at my intelligence pass since I chose not to read through all of your posts and I misunderstood your question. However, if you feel the need to combat my IQ in the future, I suggest two things 1) send it in a PM or 2) keep it to yourself.

Respect for all members is requirement.

Sorry, if you think it was aimed at you. Aimed at not reading the post. Yes. It's in detail. I've read this forum for about a year. I've gone through this car with all the recommendations.

That's why it's in as much detail as I can make it. I'm looking for an answer.

As a moderator. You should understand respect. It's disrespectful to glance through a post. Not understanding what is being relayed because it's a little longer than most. It's long and, accurate. With good descriptions of what's been checked, replaced, and has a accurate description of what the car is doing.

As, for the pics. I have a account at photo bucket. I wrote that I'm familiar with photo bucket.

I posted what I needed. The administrator page posted on the page that I copy and, pasted the free 5000k statement from. Has no mail link. I think I know now what you are refering to by green sticky. Mine appears grey. I'll look into it.

And, then there's a album feature. I have know idea how to make an album here. Not much for instructions there either.

So, please don't take it personal. It's a long post. I was somewhat frustrated. Trying to put up some pics showing the grounds I checked. The statement does apply to please read the post carefully.. Sorry, I posted it in my reply to you. Could have ended up in several that, I have replied, too. Believe me when I write this. I'm not doing it for enjoyment. I'm not doing it to play games with people that may have knowledge to help me find the problem. And, as a retired certified master mechanic. A good description is the fastest way to the answer.

Respect is a two way street.

I'll check out the grey box on my home page. See, what it does. The pictures I'll post other than one of the car. Would be directly related to technical stuff.

I again ask. Does anyone have the wiring diagram for this beast? A ground point locator? The diagram of the PCM connections and, what they are controlling/reading/grounds and, powers?? I stated earlier in this post. That for some reason. My Library has lost the set of mitchell manuels for this car. If, I had these manuels. I'd already have this beast fixed.

If, you don't read this post carefully. Then you will lose some good information. And, create frustration.

Now. That statement is not aimed at you. It's just a fact.

God Bless,

Chris

[SSEi95]

If anyone can tell me how to post into my 5000k of free pic posting on this site. Please enlighten me.

Here is a link of how to use our gallery. Hopefully that will help you out.

EDIT: oops, forgot the link itself.... http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... f=2&t=1852

[myfirstbonnie]

Have you investigated the EGR. The EGR is not used until the engine warms up. If a pintle valve sticks open, it would be feeding exhaust gas into a cylinder when it shouldn't. Try running it with the EGR unplugged and see if it stays running when warm. You will get the EGR codes, but the EGR should not try to open. You could even clean and inspect the EGR itself or get one from the JY.

Edit: I don't want to sound off the wall here, but does the engine light function when the car is started? I want to make sure there isn't any codes that are hidden from a burnt bulb. Has the O2 sensor ever been serviced and if so, what brand was put in? When it is warm and running, is the solenoid on the evap canister clicking?

[crash93ssei]

I think that you need to check your fuel pressure. Just because you have a new pump and filter does not mean you can't possibly have a pressure problem.

Get a pressure gauge and check your pressure while driving when the problem happens.

A NEW balancer is only $165.00 from GMPartsDirect.com, but I would't recommend jumping to conclusions and changing that right away. I seriously doubt that is your problem, just wanted you to know that they can be had new for much less then $300 +

Believe me, I know all about running in circles chasing an electrical problem. I chased a problem down on my '93 for two months last summer after it died on me with no warning.