New Glass.

[ddalder]

I just picked up a brand new windshield from my GM dealer. What I found interesting is that it does not have a GM logo on the glass. It's PGW (Pittsburgh Glass Works).

The shipping label on the box indicates it was shipped to General Motors and then came through the usual parts distribution network. The box also has a GM label on it with their part number. There is a tag stuck to the glass as well that shows the GM part number.

Just found this kind of odd. Has anyone else bought OEM glass and not had the GM logo?

[CMNTMXR57]

If it gets delivered to a GM factory, it will/can get a GM logo as it's going on the car originally.

The same windshield sold through SPO, or elsewhere doesn't necessarily have to. It's not that big of a deal unless you're trying to maintain some form of collector originality.

[ddalder]

Well, this is disappointing for a number of reasons.

First, you can count on one hand the number of non-GM parts installed on either one of my cars so yes, a GM mark does have some relevance to me.

Second, true or not, the "perception" is that an OEM window (marked as such) is better quality than aftermarket glass. In my opinion, the lack of a GM marking means to anyone I may try and sell the car to in the future that I didn't preserve the quality of OEM glass. There is no marking to suggest it's anything other than aftermarket glass, whether it was indeed made to a higher standard or not. An invoice from the parts department does not guarantee build quality.

Third, given the amount of money GM charges for glass, one expects some level of confidence that it truly is as good as the original and that GM offers owners the confidence in this by having their marking present.

Now, my local dealer treats me very well and offers what I consider to be exceptional pricing. I'm sure some of this is because of the sheer number and value of parts I buy. Regardless, the GM retail price for this glass in western Canada is $736.59 (I didn't pay this amount but it was still a lot). This is part alone, no installation and I pick it up at the parts counter. For this kind of money, I expect the sale price reflects the confidence in quality that a GM marking offers.

Frustrated consumer....

[CMNTMXR57]

No one other than you will care though.

When looking to buy a used GM vehicle, I have never looked at the windows and said "wait, that's not GM marked glass, no deal..."

The SPO doesn't always source parts from the same place/manufacturer as the original maker that supplied the factory. Hence why you're getting a non-GM marked windshield in a GM box. Anything from PPG, Pilkington, etc, will meet or exceed any GM requirement since GM (like most manufacturers... Except Chrysler), awards contracts to the lowest bidder that meets their minimum requirements.

I get what you're saying about the cost, but after opening it, and not seeing the GM marking on it, I'd have taken it back if it was that important. But my educated guess is, chances of getting a replacement windshield, anywhere, with the original GM marking will be limited to you physically removing it from another Bonneville.

[bobgto65]

I have to agree with Lane on this one. And I am looking over your list of awesome mods so it does not appear you wanted to keep the car factory original anyway.

[ddalder]

Perhaps I've not made my point(s) very clear. Agree with Lane if you wish, however I don't. In my mind it is unacceptable to purchase an item from a GM dealership, supplied through GMSPO and pay OE prices for an aftermarket branded item. When did this become okay? Do you remember GM's advertising? "Keep your GM vehicle all GM". It seems they need to change this... "Don't worry about keeping your GM vehicle all GM... because we won't!"

Seriously, to pay this kind of money for what I suspect is the same aftermarket glass I could have sourced locally for a fraction of the price is not reasonable. When people buy GM parts from GM, I expect the level of quality that they portray to supply. Period. Money doesn't fall into my wallet. When I spend it, I have expectations. If this is the way GM wants to supply parts then it needs to be reflected in their pricing. I'm not buying a nut, bolt or push-in retainer. I'm purchasing an item that is the better part of $1K.

Anecdotal perhaps, but I have never had an aftermarket windshield last as well as OEM.

As for my list of mods, I can understand your confusion because you really don't know me. This isn't about keeping my car "original", it's about keeping it GM. Guess how many of my mods were done with parts not used on the GM assembly line? I can help with this... ZERO. Every single mod in my car functions exactly the way it was designed to work in the GM vehicles in which they were originally installed. This extends right down to the wiring harnesses that were unwrapped, meticulously modified with new terminals, new wire and only connectors that GM would have used in regular production vehicles finished off with a wrap in the correct harness tape. So, after spending literally hundreds of hours researching, modifying and maintaining my cars, this really is irritating. There are actually some mods I never did install because it was not possible to have them function exactly as GM would have intended. I'm not happy about having a non-GM brand clearly visible on the exterior of my car. This takes away from what I've always worked toward. Had GM indicated this was not going to be an OEM part then this post would not exist.

[ddalder]

In fact, since I seem to be off on a tangent... Consider this...

Next time you need to do an oil change, go to your dealer and ask them for a filter. Of course I'm sure you'll be expecting an ACDelco filter which does have a fairly reasonable reputation for quality. If you open the box and find the "Orange" one instead, don't worry, just pay the price for the blue one and walk away smiling. After all, a filter is a filter... right?

[1tinindian]

Both of our Bonnevilles have PPG windshields, does that mean they are not the originals?

[ddalder]

Not what was installed at the factory. Typically, it's accepted that OEM branded glass is manufactured to a higher standard. When I booked the appointment with the glass shop today (a nation wide provider) they told me I should be contacting GM about this since I paid for an OEM quality windshield and that's not what I got. Even the glass shop told me that OEM is made to a higher standard.

[Arrowhead]

The OE glass is probably NLA and they're substituting with the one you got, hoping that nobody notices or cares. Seems like specs have slacked a lot in recent years and stuff is sourced from all over the globe these days. I love it when country of origin is listed as one of 3 or 4 different countries !

[ddalder]

I'm sure this is exactly the case. Unfortunately, it's even more expensive than when I first priced it shortly after I bought the car back in 2006 suggesting they are still charging OEM prices. I have become increasingly disappointed with GM over the past couple of years (can you tell?) and this is just one more item on the list.

Not to get off topic, but I helped someone install paddle shifters in his Cadillac ATS since he bought a more base version. While removing one of the modules under the dash, I'll never forget those three words now burned in my memory... "Made in China". Everything seems great when it's new. Let's see how some of these recent products hold up in a few years.

[CMNTMXR57]

When you go to a GM dealer and buy GM Fuel system cleaner... It is/was Chevron Techron.

When you go to a GM dealer and buy the GM coolant sealing pellets... It is made by BARS if I recall.

When you go to a GM dealer and buy an AC/Delco Battery, it is made by Johnson Controls which also makes DieHards, and a couple others. Much like the windshield, you will never, ever, get a grey label, factory supplied battery again. That only comes from the assembly line. You will always get a blue label AC/Delco. This point did frustrate me when I had to replace the OEM battery on the GTO. I also back in the day, had a Corvette owner wanting my original grey AC/Delco, from my Camaro, for his Corvette for car shows for authenticity purposes. So when it died, I gladly sold it to him.

The point being, GM sources parts from all over and from many different suppliers. Sometimes through a production run of a vehicle, different suppliers can be used to supply the factory with the same core parts on it. For some reason I saw this on brake calipers a lot. Chrysler is guilty of this too. They use both Teves and Bosch. GM uses Teves, Bosch, and PBR.

I completely understand that you feel like you didn't get what you paid for. If this was something that was important to me, when I unboxed the windshield and didn't see the "GM" marking at the bottom corner, I would've taken it back or at least started asking questions. The problem is, any other replacement you get will be PPG, Pilkington, or other unless you physically go to a junkyard and pull one off another GXP. Why? PPG, Pilkington, and other supply the aftermarket.

[CMNTMXR57]

And everything is made in China now BTW. It isn't just GM.

[1tinindian]

Besides the label on the glass, what can be seen with the naked eye that makes the difference?
What is this "higher standard" you are looking for? (other than a label on the glass).

[FLbenztech]

And everything is made in China now BTW. It isn't just GM.

I have seen and also installed OE Mercedes Benz parts that read "Made in China"
The parts that come to mind are relays, mirror motors, CD changers, etc. Not many
but there are a few.

We had our Bonneville W/S replaced again recently for the second time about a month ago
and it is a EZ Kool by Plinkington. (The original equipment glass is all EZ Kool). The last replacement was a PPG. Both were a HUD and Made in USA.
We also had the windshield replaced in my old Ford Lightning the same time by the same
local glass company and they called it OE but it was made in China. I am still pissed at them as they
called it OE. Any glass "Made in U.S.A." would have probably made me happy.

That said I understand your frustration with OE parts. Last Friday I stopped a the local Chevy dealer
to get a ECT sensor for our Bonnie because it has two, one for the PCM and one for the gauge and the local parts stores only list one. The one I got was "made in Mexico" and had GM all over the bags that
it was packaged in. The worst part was it was 50% more than the one from the parts store!

At this point I am glad to purchase any parts made in the U.S.A.!

[1tinindian]

From my point of view (working at a Chevrolet dealer), it looks to me that some of you need a dose of reality.
GM is NOT 100% Made in the USA.
It hasn't been for a long time!

As much as I would like GM to be 100% Made in the USA, it just isn't.
I still like GM and the vehicles they offer, some of you don't, that is a personal choice we both make.

But the bottom line is, that it is a WORLD economy , and that is the way businesses do business.
Low bid gets the contract, that old nugget!

The factory is most likely supplied by a different supplier that what the service replacement parts are.
They ALL have to meet a minimum design and build standard.

Made in China, Made in Canada, Made in Mexico , at this point, I don't give it a second thought, because if the part works as designed then it's doing its job. What more do you need?

[CMNTMXR57]

Exactly.

[ddalder]

From my point of view (working at a Chevrolet dealer), it looks to me that some of you need a dose of reality.
GM is NOT 100% Made in the USA.
It hasn't been for a long time!

As much as I would like GM to be 100% Made in the USA, it just isn't.
I still like GM and the vehicles they offer, some of you don't, that is a personal choice we both make.

But the bottom line is, that it is a WORLD economy , and that is the way businesses do business.
Low bid gets the contract, that old nugget!

The factory is most likely supplied by a different supplier that what the service replacement parts are.
They ALL have to meet a minimum design and build standard.

Made in China, Made in Canada, Made in Mexico , at this point, I don't give it a second thought, because if the part works as designed then it's doing its job. What more do you need?

Well, you just keep believing this if you want.

First of all, lowest bid does not always get the contract. I'm not sure how many RFP's you've been involved in reviewing, but I've been involved with several. I have also been responsible for overseeing, coordinating, scheduling, reviewing and approving maintenance for nearly 200 fleet vehicles and I can tell you hands down that not all parts are created equal including windshields.

In the event that you had not picked up on the theme of my thread here, meeting minimum standard is not what this is about. If that's what you want for your car, feel free. Every single part being sold legitimately meets a minimum standard. Surely if you work for a dealer you understand the concept of "Good", "Better", "Best". But wait, you want me to believe since they all meet a minimum standard that there's really no difference at the end of the day. Wrong. And if you do accept this as valid, why do you believe it's any different for an OE grade windshield versus a consumer aftermarket windshield?

[CMNTMXR57]

Leon and I know GM, they DO go after the lowest bid. They nickle and dime everything on vehicles. This is one of the biggest complaints with GM, especially when it used to come to interiors.

And it's not what Leon is settling for in terms of a minimum standard. It's how GM operates and that's the system he (as did I), have to work around. Just the facts man.

[1tinindian]

Well, you just keep believing this if you want.

First of all, lowest bid does not always get the contract. I'm not sure how many RFP's you've been involved in reviewing, but I've been involved with several. I have also been responsible for overseeing, coordinating, scheduling, reviewing and approving maintenance for nearly 200 fleet vehicles and I can tell you hands down that not all parts are created equal including windshields.

In the event that you had not picked up on the theme of my thread here, meeting minimum standard is not what this is about. If that's what you want for your car, feel free. Every single part being sold legitimately meets a minimum standard. Surely if you work for a dealer you understand the concept of "Good", "Better", "Best". But wait, you want me to believe since they all meet a minimum standard that there's really no difference at the end of the day. Wrong. And if you do accept this as valid, why do you believe it's any different for an OE grade windshield versus a consumer aftermarket windshield?

No need to take a "tone" with me, OK?
Lane knows exactly what I'm saying.

I have never seen anyone have so much heart-burn over a windshield, but if that sort of thing bothers you, then so be it.

But you have evaded my question, what is this "higher standard" you are looking for in a piece of glass?

Does it boil down to what manufactures name is on the part?

I understand you feeling ripped-off for paying a premium price for something you are not happy about, but what is it that you are expecting? What is it that makes this windshield inferior?

I have no idea where your expectations are, other than the amount of money you paid out for this GM service replacement part.

Don't you think that since 2004, the company that supplied the OE windshields to the factory is no longer making this particular windshield anymore?
That is where the aftermarket and other certified parts manufactures step in and make parts for our aging cars.