My project 89 Bonneville

[Evilcowboy420]

Ok so here is my thread I am intending to post for my 89 bonneville.

So here is the just as to what is done and where I am going with this.

I picked this car up not running for 200 bucks. The car seized due to spun bearing on cylinder 1. I decided not to document the engine tear down and removal as there is plenty of people who have already done that. So basically it has already been tore down and the block is being cleaned and the crank is being mic'ed and they will let me know if it is saveable. If not I can pull another one from the junk yard of a free spinning one and have the shop match new bearings to it. So not really worried there.

The car was pretty abused over the years but then again everyone told me I wouldn't ever get my 88 sunbird running either (they were wrong) or I love the guys watching me break this down saying I would never get the block out without a winch (they seemed a little surprised when I strong armed that out of the engine bay lol more than one way to skin a deer) So the engine is probably one of the most moist ones I have ever seen. I suspect this is why I actually have factory paint left on it still being protected from NY salt for 25 years with oil lol.

Now although everything looked pretty bad on the surface a look inside revealed a not so bad looking engine. The crank was yet to be desired but really only looked bad on cylinder 1 as everyone probably guessed.

I guess what made me want to save this car is the fact it really looks good on the outside for it's year. Probably was parked a bit. Very little wear on the rocker panels and anyone who lives towards the north knows that is very unusual on any car. It has a nice big engine bay also added to the appeal of it. The color is a nice 1980's powder blue and is yet to be desired and when she is running she will be painted to a gloss metallic black.

So I will be posting pics here as soon as this is approved being new and all and everyone can follow as I put for an effort to save what was once destined for the junk yard.

I tend to live by the code no 3800 will ever die on my watch lol. I am just really partial to the engine which is made apparent by the fact I own a Series II car with a L36 (I know I know L67 is better)

But it is quite the opportunity to work with the LN3. It being a pre-series I engine I saw another guy bore one of these blocks out to fit series II pistons with shorter rods (considering doing the same) and also all supercharger hardware from series I fits these engines without head swap.

Anyways if anyone wants to give some tid bits on way to pull just a bit more out of a LN3 then feel free to help me out. This is gonna be a budget build so hoping to do this without running into too many problems.

As an after thought what are peoples feelings here on an EGR block. I personally don't like em and feel they are not necessary. I had also read some info on the balance shaft delete. basically just don't put the gear back on or remove and freeze plug the holes. Can anyone give me any info on why this is done and what adverse effects this may have on the engine mechanically.

Anyways enough of me rambling pics will follow.

Thanks for reading.

[Evilcowboy420]

Ok well I took in the crank to the shop today and I have a question for anyone who may know.


So the crank is toast on cylinder 1 so not using that one. So I have a few options open to me and am wondering which path I should take on this project.


First pull the crank from a junk yard and take the matching mains. about 70 bucks total (already got new bearings)

second buy a crank kit with matching mains and rod bearings about 170 with tax.

third pull the entire engine and plop it in the car and save my rebuilt heads for another day. about 230 for it.

So the first option is appealing because it is cheap albeit a lot of work but still the cheapest since it will allow me to grab the cylinder 1 rod with it since mine has bearing material on it's bearing surface.

The second option has its pluses a little expensive but everything is new. But would still need to source the rod.

The final option is about 50 bucks more in my area than the crank kit and is probably easier of a job.

There is the option of just grabbing the short block but it is around 180 for it.

Personally I was leaning towards just grabbing the crank and rod 1 for cheap and giving it a bearing refresh. Not sure if any problems would arise from that without doing my research on it. Anyways some advice in the right direction would be very appreciated. I really want to get this engine done this summer and back in the car.

Thanks for any help

[Evilcowboy420]

As promised here are some pics so far.

Nasty head disassembled


Same nasty head reassembled (new valve seals and some porting to match the gaskets lapped and measured valves and springs. Just knocked off some rough casting material. Valve cover repainted along with head (quick job).


Spun Bearing boooo Cylinder 1


Block after being strong armed from the car......yeah still proud of that one. Look at how nasty that block looks.


Crankshaft. You can see the problem on cylinder 1 all the way to the left next to the counter balance.



Thats all I have gotten so far. I will post a few more once the work progresses. Can't do much until my I make a decision on my crankshaft.

[1oldman]

I'm not help, but I am enjoying the thread. - BC

[Marik_bathory]

Right on. I do love the old the old squarebodies. It's good to see another avoiding the scrapyard.

[Evilcowboy420]

Thanks guys. I think I am going to decide to get a complete block and use the heads from this car with a few odds and ends to get the engine right.

Funny story today I figured I would try to empty the gas tank since I was unsure as to when the car will live. Don't wanna run old gas and all. So I tried a siphon and no luck there so I then got the idea of just hooking the battery up and turning the key and seeing if the pump would send it out. Needless to say without an engine in it that route wont work. Everything inside works but the pump did not. I am guessing a safety feature due to the rail not being hooked up and the injectors not plugged in or the ground may have been unhooked since it worked before pulling the engine.

Anyhow when I turned the key I noticed my oil pressure was around 75 psi without an engine lol. I thought that was oddly funny since I expected it not to work without the sensor being plugged in or at the very least just error and max the needle.

Anyways just waiting around right now to source the new engine and to get the funds for it. It should be around 215 at the junk yard for the whole thing and I can just use the block.


As a second thought I had wondered if anyone could tell me if a series I engine would line up to the 440T4 tranny I got. I know the series I usually got the 4T60 not sure about the similarities.

[mrwildroot]

You can buy a 'fluid transfer pump' from Harbor Freight Tools for around $8.
This pump can also be used to remove tranny fluid w/0 removing the pan.

[Evilcowboy420]

You can buy a 'fluid transfer pump' from Harbor Freight Tools for around $8.
This pump can also be used to remove tranny fluid w/0 removing the pan.

hmm thanks I'll have to look into that one cause the prestone one I got from walmart sucks. Poor sealing so it don't work right.

Now for a question some may know off hand. What fits from a series II in to a series I block without mods?

I know its an off question but I was thinking that since the rods are shorter and my deck is higher it would lower compression. I was looking to do this because someone told me that lower compression is better if I am thinking of going with a larger cam so the compression kind of evens out nicely. So shorter rods would do this for me.

As for my progress thus far.

I am going to take pics tomorrow but I have finished the heads......well as far as I am going to finish them. They got cleaned, valves lapped, new valve seals, checked for flatness, measured springs and so forth and finally painted black. I reamed the ridge and honed the cylinders and cleaned up the block even more.

The pistons I am waiting on until I figure out if anything can be used from a series II. I hope something works cause I like my metal manifold, but I also like the series II bottom end, and I like my heads. so I am at a crossroads until I figure how to advance. Also working weird hours don't help lol.

I have also been buying gaskets like no other to have everything when I got to put it together. Also got new bearings (standard size on sale for 2 bucks a set clevite) and new head bolts. I was thinking of going to arp bolts but the stock type tty bolts are proven for better clamping so I went the cheap way.

I kind of got side tracked with my 04 Lesabre (yeah I really love the 3800) by a stupid air bag light. turned out to be the clip to the wire worked loose and caused the module to not communicate.

Then I got all into wanting to sound dampen my trunk to get ride of a common 3 second whine from the air shocks so a can of undercoating insode the metal of the trunk worked for that and it gave me a chance to detail the trunk.

anyways thanks for reading. Pics tomorrow.

[MattStrike]

I know its an off question but I was thinking that since the rods are shorter and my deck is higher it would lower compression. I was looking to do this because someone told me that lower compression is better if I am thinking of going with a larger cam so the compression kind of evens out nicely. So shorter rods would do this for me.

Why? Are you going to turbo or supercharge it? With NA you want more compression, not less. Don't mess with the rod length. Simply put the longer rods are better anyway.

If you use any non-original parts in the rotating assembly then you have to get it re-balanced. Not something you would normally do for a budget build.

[Evilcowboy420]

I know its an off question but I was thinking that since the rods are shorter and my deck is higher it would lower compression. I was looking to do this because someone told me that lower compression is better if I am thinking of going with a larger cam so the compression kind of evens out nicely. So shorter rods would do this for me.

Why? Are you going to turbo or supercharge it? With NA you want more compression, not less. Don't mess with the rod length. Simply put the longer rods are better anyway.

If you use any non-original parts in the rotating assembly then you have to get it re-balanced. Not something you would normally do for a budget build.

Yeah I knew I would need to have it balanced and so forth. The L67 supercharger fits this engine without changing the heads which is a pretty cheap upgrade on the top end and I knew a guy with a couple of them willing to sell me one for 50 bucks. So just like with most stuff I do I tend to start thinking a bit outside the box and was the reason for the question. I still haven't gone through the compression calculation yet to find out exactly how it would effect this engine. I am just overly inquisitive lol.

And also my bad I wasn't thinking right last night when I wrote it talking about a larger cam and all. I forgot it lowers compression. So I'll probably scrap the idea of a larger cam all together.

Your probably right in that it will more than likely cost more than its worth lol. Just figured if I was changing out the bad rod for a new one I would give the idea some thought.

[Evilcowboy420]

As promised new pics

Cylinder view still got some honing to do but I did ridge ream and it's flat just gotta work at getting the little line of carbon out. It is still got a lot of cleaning left to do


Second head together. Yeah I could have cleaned it a bit more inside the spring area but it's clean enough.


The first head with it's cover resting on top to give an idea of how it will look.


Sorry about the motion blur pic of the valley waiting on a pressure washer to borrow to spray everything down.

[MattStrike]

Cams... Read this. Pick your cam based on RPM operating range and whether you decide to use a blower.

You have to build the engine with your goal in mind, which means getting the right cam for what you're building. Forget about using shorter con rods. The stock LN3 bottom end, with it's longer con rods, seems to be able to handle boost with no trouble. Check these out:
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick ... 800-a.html

You need to start thinking about the trans. It's not going to hold much more power than stock for very long. Which brings me to my next point... just swap in an entire series 2 L67 drivetrain. It has plenty of aftermarket for upgrades and is a very cost-effective (compared to the cost of a built trans) and reliable setup.

Or convert the LN3 to run on the OBD-2 PCM with a 4t65.

[Evilcowboy420]

Cams... Read this. Pick your cam based on RPM operating range and whether you decide to use a blower.

You have to build the engine with your goal in mind, which means getting the right cam for what you're building. Forget about using shorter con rods. The stock LN3 bottom end, with it's longer con rods, seems to be able to handle boost with no trouble. Check these out:
http://www.turbobuicks.com/forums/buick ... 800-a.html

You need to start thinking about the trans. It's not going to hold much more power than stock for very long. Which brings me to my next point... just swap in an entire series 2 L67 drivetrain. It has plenty of aftermarket for upgrades and is a very cost-effective (compared to the cost of a built trans) and reliable setup.

Or convert the LN3 to run on the OBD-2 PCM with a 4t65.

Yeah I keep switching back and forth on what I want to do with the engine the more I think about it. My original idea was simply to install a larger cam, adjust lift with spring shims and tune for it. But not a lot of love on aftermarket parts for the LN3. But I gotta still crunch numbers to see if it is even worth it. In the end I may just leave it alone and enjoy doing a stock rebuild and save mods for a more appropriate engine. It's looking more and more like the LN3 was just made to be a work horse. Either way I am still enjoying working with it and is really cool to see the differences between the 2 series engines. Before this I have only touched the series II engine.

So since the con rods will take a supercharger beating I will leave them alone aside from the one I still need to get. I just don't feel comfortable using the rod on the cylinder that spun the bearing even though it didn't snap not to mention the bearing surface looks like crap.

I will consider the 4T65 transplant although the shift kit and solenoid replacement is almost always necessary in them so that is my only pause on doing it.

The LN3 running an OBDII PCM I didn't even really consider but is an interesting idea.

But getting the crank, and piston and new rings is my main concern since the engine ain't gonna do anything without those. Then I can start putting things back together. Still deciding on new crank or junk yard pull since from a junk yard it's 27 bucks and buying one is 156 (still pretty decent for a reman with matching mains and rod bearings).

This project just more or less stemmed from a challenge that everyone at my work claiming the engine would never run again and the car was junk. lol

Either way your input is much appreciated.

[Evilcowboy420]

New pics of some progress I've made.

manifold cleaned and painted.


oil filter adapter painted and cleaned


Timing cover assembled. The water pump has a reusable gasket. So I threw it on to see how it looked. New seals, oil pump measured and packed, new Teflon tape on every thread and painted.


Block painted. Yes I just painted it and went over gasket surfaces with acetone. It will be a while before I get the block finished so since it is outside I left the timing cover area painted to protect against rust. This will also have acetone put on it when it is assembled.


The red in the cylinders is some assembly lube for rust protection. I also use 5w-30 in the valley and inside to protect it as well. All of this will be cleaned up on reassembly.


Some other pics I have yet to take but will as soon as I can.

Personally I am after the sound of the older buick v6 like the 225 and so forth....mind you I am just after the sound not the vintage performance. I thought it would be cool to pull a dauntless sound out of a more updated engine. I just like the sound of the idle they have on them. Now for a question. Does anyone have any clue how I could go about this without making performance suffer?

There is just something about the sound of that engine that appeals to me.

Anyhow thanks for viewing and will update with more photos possibly a vid or two explaining my thought process while rebuilding this engine.

[Zeik75]

Wow don't know how i didn't see this before. Anyway i would say get a cam regrind and gasket match the heads and intake. Get an LG3 front manifold/header for improved flow, Clean up the rear manifold of its fabrication mistakes, straight pipe instead of the car. (Don't legally need it anyway being an 89). Get a good muffler (i have a hooker aerochamber on mine and love the sound once it warms up, it is pretty raspy and obnoxious when cold.). Then put a cone intake of some sort on. Those couple things make it quite a bit more lively and also make it growl.

I did all of this with the exception of a cam regrind and manifold swap and it is already way funner to drive. Not putting anyone in their places yet but a great cruiser.

[Zeik75]

My plans for the future will be OBD II swap, LARGE turbo and a 6 speed manual




But in like 5 years