L36 Engine Mount(s) and 4T65E Transmission Mount(s) Location

[1oldman]

I believe the L36 Series II engine mount(s) may not not located in the same place(s) as the L27 Series I . Does anyone know if it is possible to drill and tap the block for locating engine mount(s) on the L36 Series II in the same place the mount(s) are located on the L27 Series I?

I don't know anything about the location of the transmission mounts on the 4T60E vs the 4T65E. Any information on that would be greatly appreciated.

(Considering of the feasibility of replacing the power train in the '92 with the newer version, hopefully from a donor car. I know it will take the wiring harness from a donor car too.)
Thanks, BC

[Jrs3800]

This may be a hard swap... And would require plenty of wiring.. The series II uses the same mounting as the series I... The bolt bosses are in the same locations for the most part.. But the brackets and the like changed.. It can all be done, but would require quite a bit of work..

What year would the donor car be?

If your car was a 94, going to an L36 would be an easy swap.. You would plumb in the second knock sensor ( attached to the line for knock sensor 1 )... Then lengthen the EGR wires.. Have the series II down pipe welded in place of the series I pipe... You would need the series II power steering line.. And possibly have to adapt the fuel lines at the engine.. Really would not be that bad.. And then you'd need an l36 EEPROM as well..

Going from 92 to say 95 would be more of a challenge..

[1oldman]

This may be a hard swap... And would require plenty of wiring.. The series II uses the same mounting as the series I... The bolt bosses are in the same locations for the most part.. But the brackets and the like changed.. It can all be done, but would require quite a bit of work..

What year would the donor car be?

If your car was a 94, going to an L36 would be an easy swap.. You would plumb in the second knock sensor ( attached to the line for knock sensor 1 )... Then lengthen the EGR wires.. Have the series II down pipe welded in place of the series I pipe... You would need the series II power steering line.. And possibly have to adapt the fuel lines at the engine.. Really would not be that bad.. And then you'd need an l36 EEPROM as well..

Going from 92 to say 95 would be more of a challenge..

My '92 Series I engine has no EGR. I believe that was the only year in that body without one. - BC
EDIT: So a '94 N/A SE or SSE, '94 LeSabre or '94 Olds 88 would also work? - BC

[MattStrike]

For the series 2 conversion:
I had to convert the original '93 PCM to a 'conversion box', it houses some relays and a transistor circuit (for the A/C), as well as acts as the adapter between the engine harness and the body harness. You also need a pass-through adapter to convert the newer firewall pass-through to the old one.

You will need an additional harness for cruise control and A/C if you keep the R-12 compressor, custom made, it's about 15 wires and 7 feet long.

Most of the wiring is making adapters to re-pin the existing harnesses to match. But there are several functions that I wanted to keep.

Other than that, you will need to modify the L27 engine mount to fit the series 2 head if you keep the R-12 compressor -or- modify the L27 mount to fit between the engine and the R-134a compressor mount. Then the passenger trans mount needs either an adjustable dogbone mount, or a modified bracket for the existing trans mount. Other incidental parts needed would be C/V axles, custom heater hoses, series 2 radiator hoses, and the CSM for the donor and your car.

There may be a few other things I'm forgetting.

[1oldman]

For the series 2 conversion:
I had to convert the original '93 PCM to a 'conversion box', it houses some relays and a transistor circuit (for the A/C), as well as acts as the adapter between the engine harness and the body harness. You also need a pass-through adapter to convert the newer firewall pass-through to the old one.

You will need an additional harness for cruise control and A/C if you keep the R-12 compressor, custom made, it's about 15 wires and 7 feet long.

Most of the wiring is making adapters to re-pin the existing harnesses to match. But there are several functions that I wanted to keep.

Other than that, you will need to modify the L27 engine mount to fit the series 2 head if you keep the R-12 compressor -or- modify the L27 mount to fit between the engine and the R-134a compressor mount. Then the passenger trans mount needs either an adjustable dogbone mount, or a modified bracket for the existing trans mount. Other incidental parts needed would be C/V axles, custom heater hoses, series 2 radiator hoses, and the CSM for the donor and your car.

There may be a few other things I'm forgetting.

Thanks Matt. I don't know yet for sure what's wrong with the drive train, or if I'm going to keep the car. I'm to the point there is very little I can do in the way of repairs anymore. I have to depend on the youngest son to do the vast majority of stuff. Only when he of I can't do that I break down and let a "mechanic" touch it. - BC

[Evilcowboy420]

For the series 2 conversion:
I had to convert the original '93 PCM to a 'conversion box', it houses some relays and a transistor circuit (for the A/C), as well as acts as the adapter between the engine harness and the body harness. You also need a pass-through adapter to convert the newer firewall pass-through to the old one.

You will need an additional harness for cruise control and A/C if you keep the R-12 compressor, custom made, it's about 15 wires and 7 feet long.

Most of the wiring is making adapters to re-pin the existing harnesses to match. But there are several functions that I wanted to keep.

Other than that, you will need to modify the L27 engine mount to fit the series 2 head if you keep the R-12 compressor -or- modify the L27 mount to fit between the engine and the R-134a compressor mount. Then the passenger trans mount needs either an adjustable dogbone mount, or a modified bracket for the existing trans mount. Other incidental parts needed would be C/V axles, custom heater hoses, series 2 radiator hoses, and the CSM for the donor and your car.

There may be a few other things I'm forgetting.

Thanks Matt. I don't know yet for sure what's wrong with the drive train, or if I'm going to keep the car. I'm to the point there is very little I can do in the way of repairs anymore. I have to depend on the youngest son to do the vast majority of stuff. Only when he of I can't do that I break down and let a "mechanic" touch it. - BC

So just out of curiosity what are the symptoms you are having with your drive train?

I have seen problems with both the 4T60 and the 4T65E. Usually it has to do with the shift points being off. In the case of the 4T60 usually a vacuum modulator that is adjustable is installed and on the 4T65E a shift kit is installed both are done to adjust the shift points.

Anyway I was just curious of what prompted the engine swap.

[1oldman]

So just out of curiosity what are the symptoms you are having with your drive train?

I have seen problems with both the 4T60 and the 4T65E. Usually it has to do with the shift points being off. In the case of the 4T60 usually a vacuum modulator that is adjustable is installed and on the 4T65E a shift kit is installed both are done to adjust the shift points.

Anyway I was just curious of what prompted the engine swap.

I haven't done any swaps. Just considering options. The car physically runs fine, just a very strange sound, kinda like a rattle when idling, kinda like a lite knock, kinda difficult for a non-mechanic to describe, when the car runs at low RPM. I think it can't be heard when driving because it's not that loud. I don't want to "blow up" or damage the engine or transmission any more than it might already be. The car has just over 305K original miles on it. It's not unheard of for these powertrains to last 500K miles. Most people though just won't do the maintenance work when needed.- BC

[95naSTA]

If you kept the 60-e, you could get the 92 pcm to run the L36 with a modified engine wiring harness. It would run.. but would require tuning via Sinister Performance to run right. I run my L36 on a L27 bin.

The EGR wouldn't work, cruise cable would need to be adapted, and I guess the compressor/lines may not bolt up.

[Evilcowboy420]

yeah what 95naSTA said is a real good option for you. The EGR not working is a plus side to me with the nastiness it causes to an intake I tend to block em off on my older cars.

As for the funny sound if you want it to last a bit longer a lot of times it is a real viable option to go ahead and run a thicker viscosity oil to help a tired engine out. It will help keep parts oiled for longer and may quiet it down some. If you run 5 weight then run 10 if you run 10w then switch to 20. It may help keep it working long enough to get what you need together for the swap.

Personally I would dump the tranny and just get another from a yard with lesser mileage but the same model that way the mounts line up. In my area a tranny is 100 bucks not sure about your neck of the woods but thats what yards around me charge.

That was you can stick with the 4t60 tranny and do the swap in that 95naSTA was talking about.

Lots of very viable options when it comes to a junk yard because a lot of people junk a car because they didn't want to work on it. Right now my yard charges 218 (thats tax included) for any engine weather it be a 4 banger to a 12 cylinder engine. You may be surprised at the prices of yards around your area. I know I was. And they usually help you lift the engine out after you disconnect it.

But that kind of mileage tells me you took very good care of your car since mine had only 177k and I have to rebuild mine due to years of neglect. I have never seen a dirtier engine in my life.

Anyways I wish you lots of luck on the swap whatever your decision may be.