Possible Firebird 3800 build

[3800SERIESII]

Hello all,

I was just venturing an idea while in my Database Management class the other day, which the idea and the class really have no relation; I was merely just day dreaming. The stock L36 and the Y87 package do pretty well on projecting the power to the pavement but some more power would be nice, in the age where v6's are putting 300+ HP out of the factory. Also, an engine that will bolt in to the current stock setup would be nice and minimal to no fab work.

Additionally, this plan will probably go into place once I get my BS in Computer Science, next 1-2 years and the funds are possible.

Note: Goal would be ~400 RWHP & ~450 RWTQ

The idea build includes but is not limited to:

-Current L36, or a L67 (although lower compression) or a L26 (Due to stronger internals), and just swap the Firebird intake onto the motor so there is not any clearance issues
-Turbo, intercooler, and wastegate (no specifics yet)
-Guages
-Fuel pump, injectors, and lines (return-less most likely)
-Tune (of course)
-As for the transmission, build the current 4L60-e or find some way to use a 200-4R (and maybe find a bellhousing to work)
-Also, the rearend already had 3.42 gears and an Auburn LSD

Any thoughts? Sounded pretty good to me.

[nos4blood70]

L26s are actually the weakest 3800. Turbo guys pop them all the time. Your L36 will handle boost perfectly fine if you tune it right.

Take a look at this... Expensive, but it might give you some research ideas:
http://cartuning.ca/products/product.ph ... engine=l36

400whp with a turbo on a 3800 is cake. Only issue would be getting the trans to hold.

[Jfridge92]

Also, the rear end may need some attention at that power. I'm not sure how the V6 rear ends are, but LSx guys pop the standard 10 bolt rears at stock power all the time with a sticky tire.

[Wes]

Those gen F bodies came with a 5 speed manual trans that fits the BoP bell housing, since you mentioned little fab work. Not sure of their durability though myself. Perhaps others can chime in on that.

Or what about a bell housing adapter to use the 6 speed T56 the LS motors came with?

Or are you set on keeping it automatic?

[MattStrike]

There are adapter plates that go between BOP and Chevy and the corporate metric patterns too if you need options.

[nos4blood70]

T5s are very weak transmissions. Or so I heard.

I would try and go for a T56, but you would need to address the rear end.

[spoiledred94]

...400whp with a turbo on a 3800 is cake. Only issue would be getting the trans to hold.

Really? You guys do have some kind of head for this.

[Zeik75]

Yeah t5's will blow apart in dramatic fashion with power. T56 would probably work depending on how crazy you go.

[nos4blood70]

T56s are pretty stout. They hold the LSx guys into the 10s with little to no modifications.

[3800SERIESII]

Looking to keep it auto. Build the 4l60e, go 4l80, or find some way to make a 200-4r work out of a GN. Prefer auto over manual, although about 15% of whp is lost vs manual but they are more consistent.

[nos4blood70]

But much less fun! Especially an old 4 speed.

[bs009]

Hey! a fellow CS Major!

You're probably better off sticking with the 4l60e. It's not terribly hard to build up, and then afterward you can still tune the transmission.

x2 on the rear end. The 7.5" is a very weak rear end. The question isn't if it will blow up, but when.

As far as manual's go, the T56 is your best bet. I'm about to find out for myself this summer though if the world class T5 can handle a turbo L36.

Do it, but I'd wait until after you're done with college. You don't need more distractions right now, ask me how I know.

[3800SERIESII]

Hey! a fellow CS Major!

You're probably better off sticking with the 4l60e. It's not terribly hard to build up, and then afterward you can still tune the transmission.

x2 on the rear end. The 7.5" is a very weak rear end. The question isn't if it will blow up, but when.

As far as manual's go, the T56 is your best bet. I'm about to find out for myself this summer though if the world class T5 can handle a turbo L36.

Do it, but I'd wait until after you're done with college. You don't need more distractions right now, ask me how I know.

Yeah, that is what I am intending to do, build be 4L60E as there is a lot of aftermarket for them and are fairly common to build up.

As far as a rear end, what about a GN rear end?

How far into the degree are you? I am in my junior year and still have a bit of schooling to go but it will pay off, at least that is what I tell myself to prevent burn-out that happens oh-so-often during college. It is actually finals week here and let me tell ya, I am ready to be done for the summer and working full time, most stressful semester of my academic year.

[bs009]

I'm currently a senior and am hoping to graduate after the fall semester. It's definitely a tough program; I'm confident it will pay off though! Just gotta stay focused and keep your eyes on the prize.

I'm not well versed in F-body's, but I don't think the GN rear end will bolt up. They use a ladder bar instead of the bar the f-body's use that bolts to the transmission. I'm sure it'd be the wrong width too.

Most G-body guys go for the Ford 9", but that's about a $1000 investment at the end of the day. It's the last rear you'll ever have to buy though.
The next step up from the 7.5" though is the 8.5"; I believe that's what LS1 cars came with. It'd be bolt in and relatively inexpensive. This is only a 10 bolt though and it's not amazing. You might be able to get away with it for a while.
Then there's also 12 bolt 8.5" rears out there. These are very strong and should take whatever you throw at it.

Basically, the sky's the limit, just depends on how much you want to spend. I'm sure there's a ton of aftermarket for the F-body's out there. Just note that 3rd gen rears won't bolt up since they don't have that transmission bar. IIRC they use a 4 link system.

Be ready to drop a lot of money on that rear end, especially if you piece everything together. Gears, carriers, axles, seals, bearings, brakes, the housing. It adds up fast.

[BonneMe]

Comparing to modern V6 has nothing to do with a 3800, DOHC, direct injection, variable valves, etc....

Building an F body with a 3800 will be a continual life of wishing you built an LSx car... By the time you add and tune a decent turbo setup you'll be into LS1 price ranges, where you could have more power, more power headroom, more reswle value, and 100% OEM reliability.

[toastedoats]

Comparing to modern V6 has nothing to do with a 3800, DOHC, direct injection, variable valves, etc....

Building an F body with a 3800 will be a continual life of wishing you built an LSx car... By the time you add and tune a decent turbo setup you'll be into LS1 price ranges, where you could have more power, more power headroom, more reswle value, and 100% OEM reliability.

Amen.

An LS1 is really the only reasonable solution here