Need someone to help me analyze this leak / mount

[skregal]

My garage floor has been getting drops of oil from the GXP
So typical.

So it thought it probably needs cooler lines again because it is towards
the front. When I crawl under the car this is what I see.




It looks like one of the oil lines to the filter housing is not seated properly,
but the dripping seems to be coming from the motor mount not those oil lines.

This is a newer mount installed by the dealer a while ago.
Do they leak an oil fluid that is hard to tell from normal motor oil?
The stuff on the floor doesn't have the rusty look like on the frame, it just seems like oil.

[bobgto65]

I do believe the factory motor mounts are fluid filled. Maybe it is time to do the hockey puck motor mount.

[CMNTMXR57]

That looks like whatever fluid is in that mount.

[1tinindian]

Odd, when I changed that mount on my GXP, nothing leaked out and it was torn open quite well around the lower mounting stud.
After taking it out, there was no hint of any fluid leakage.
Maybe mine had been torn so long it all leaked out!
Still, there was no trace of any fluid that had leaked from it.

Leon

[skregal]

Well, I have the clunk (when pushing accelerator pedal) returning again
so I know the mount is toast so I guess I will just replace it.

The only thing that bothers me is dropping the subframe to remove
the mount.
DO I REALLY HAVE TO DROP THE SUBFRAME???

Is there no other way? What does the FSM say?
Even after jacking up the engine with the side mounts loose, is there
still not enough room??? How do you know when you have jacked
up the engine enough (or too far) and you still must lower the subframe?
How is that determined?

So many questions...

As you can tell I don't want to tackle this job, but my warranty is over.

[repinS]

If you already have the side mounts loose, dropping the front half of the subframe isn't rocket science. Literally two more bolts and some additional support on the section you're lowering (I used a spare tire jack). I loosened everything and still had to pry on the subframe to get the mount out. After doing it once it doesn't phase me now, and you will find that it's faster if you do drop the subframe - heck I don't even know if you can do the job without it. It certainly helps to have air tools and a good pry bar!


from this thread: http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... 33837.html

0) Remove the torx screw holding the airbox to the front fender. This may have already come loose on most cars when the busted trans mount flops the powertrain around.
1) Raise and safely support car - not via the subframe - stands at the jack points at the rockers are ideal. You want to go pretty high. Don't forget to chock your rear wheels and set your parking brake beforehand.
2) Remove the clips holding the front airdam. Don't force them out, pry up the center section of the clip and they will just slide out.
3) Optional: Remove the front wheels. Recommended if you don't have an impact extension and air tools.
4) Support the engine/transmission with a jack. I use a bracket covering the exhaust between the oil pan and transmission pan. It'll be pretty hard to miss.
5) Unbolt rear half of the front trans mount, there are three or four locations: Bottom nut under the subframe, two nuts near the exhaust manifold that hold the bracket, and two studs that are bolted into the transmission. There is also a secondary bracket/bar that will need to be moved out of the way.
6) Undo the bolts for the two side engine mounts - they are near each wheel. If you pulled your wheels, you'll have lots of room. If not, you may be able to cheat and access them by steering the wheels to one side.
7) Undo the front two bolts for your subframe. You may want to use a jack (I use a spare tire jack) to ease the subframe down. Air tools may come in handy here to break loose the thread lock compound.
8) At this point the front mount should be loose and flopping around - here comes the challenging part.
9) Slinky the mount AND bracket assembly out from the engine bay. You may have to pry downward on your subframe to create enough space, OR jack up the engine/transmission to create enough clearance between the body and subframe. Play around here. I find a good place to pry would be off the AC compressor. Be careful about the metal lines (oil? fuel? ABS? I forget) that pass through this area. You will have to move them around, but make sure not to pinch or break them. I have found the best way to take it out is by turning the whole assembly upside down so that the bracket comes out first.
10) Cuss, swear, and take a break. Have a beer or six.
11) Hopefully you'll get the mount out. Installation is pretty much the reverse of removal. You may want to put some new thread locker on the subframe bolts.

You are probably doing no favours to your back 4 front subframe mounting points or your AC compressor by doing it this way, but I find it's the most effective for doing the front mount.

[skregal]

I found some FSM instructions and they say you need to take
off the steering rack and control arms from the subframe and remove a bunch of
other small things before loosening and lowering the subframe. It appears
you guys didn't do those steps.

Are there any consequences or possible damage that could result
from skipping this stuff???

[repinS]

Based on what I noticed when prying, I could only see that you might put some extra stress on your remaining engine/trans mounts. That said, they're considerably less likely to fail compared to the front mount, I didn't worry about it and things seemed to come out alright. Preventing damage to the brake lines and surrounding parts is also equally important. Always pay attention to where the mount/bracket is caught or pulling on, and always have a jack supporting the engine/trans and try to have another jack supporting the subframe whenever you're not prying on it.

The passenger side mount is a pain to remove entirely - there's an almost blind bolt in the engine bay side of the frame, near the belt drive. I removed it only for inspection - I never tried removing the driver's side. I farmed the rear mount out to a mechanic who charged me something like 1-1.5 hours of labour to install an aftermarket Anchor brand mount. For anything other than the front mount, stick to GM mounts if you can.

Also see this if you want to try your luck: http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... 29192.html - some were also able to devise a setup with hockey pucks.

[1tinindian]

With a lift, and never had done one before, I was able to change mine out on my 1 hour lunch break.
I pulled the lower bumper close out panel and removed the 2 front subframe bolts, then just worked directly on the mount until it came out.
Not a bad job.

Leon

[repinS]

It took me a day and a half the first time through. If I were to do it now it'd probably take 2-3 hours. That's without a hoist, and with air tools.

[skregal]

I assume those subframe bolts have welded nuts or threads
in the top frame, and can be loosened some and just remain
in place without falling out or needing top access with another wrench.

I think I almost have enough courage to do this job.
It took me four weeks to work up the mental confidence to do
the LIM gaskets on the SSEi.

[1tinindian]

Yes, the sub frame bolts are a threaded hole. No need for upper access, just spin the bolts out.

Leon

[jedivman]

With a lift, and never had done one before, I was able to change mine out on my 1 hour lunch break.
I pulled the lower bumper close out panel and removed the 2 front subframe bolts, then just worked directly on the mount until it came out.
Not a bad job.

Leon

Exactly what I did on mine, I also unbolted the brake lines on front of the sub-frame for more clearance.....

Tomorrow the whole thing is coming out so I can drill and stud the block...