Launch Shudder??

[ballstatefan05]

I searched the forum for info on this topic and found nothing. So, here goes:
I have a vibration (shudder) on the passenger side front SOMETIMES (depending on speed) when I take off and when accelerating through turns, I have researched this on the net and found it seems to be called "launch shudder". Now, I have replaced:

brakes (everything on all 4)
tie rods
CV axles (both)
shocks (back)
struts/springs (quick-strut) (front)
new tires and rims
had tires finger balanced and rotated

There isn't any vibration once you get up to cruising speed. Everything else checks out tight, in good shape and there aren't any other symptoms to mention. The shop I had for the last 6 yrs recently closed their doors and we were in the middle of diagnosing this issue. I took it to another shop and they are telling me the passenger CV axle is (too tight) and they THINK it is the problem..WHAT ? I had this issue before I even replaced both CV axles, I replaced them just to see if that was the problem and it didn't make a difference. I don't want to just keep "throwing parts" into this trying to diagnose it. Since it only happens when I take off and make quick turns I could "deal" with it, but I know the car didn't come from the factory like this and something is NOT RIGHT!! Anyone have an opinion about this?? Please help!!

Jaime

[Archon]

What is the condition and level of your transmission fluid?

[ballstatefan05]

I personally haven't checked it, I have it checked at every oil change. But, the tranny was rebuilt in 2011. It does however have a "HARD" shift sometimes from 2nd to 3rd. I've read that it could be something in the tranny causing this. SPRAG?

[Archon]

Have it scanned with something other than just a standard code reader and see if code P1811 is set.

[ballstatefan05]

I have an appt today at 2 for another installation of a new CV axle. What do you think? Should I go to a dealership instead of a small shop? What is P1811 code for? Sorry I'm not a mechanic, but I would like to be. I learn every chance I get...

[Archon]

Even a small shop should have a scanner capable of reading transmission codes. This code will not set the check engine light. You can read up on that code here:
http://www.tripleedgeperformance.com/Ha ... P1811.html

[00Beast]

How often do you change your oil? If you do it every 3-5k, you're wasting a TON of money on Trans fluid, throwing perfectly good fluid into the waste barrel...

Have you checked the wheel hubs?

[crash93ssei]

I think you misread that Ed, he has it checked when he has the oil changed, not changed at the same time.

I had this same problem with the '02 SLE I had last year, never really looked into it since it drove so well otherwise. I would be real hesitant on throwing in another new CV axle unless they guarantee that is the problem and if it doesn't fix it they refund your money.

[ballstatefan05]

So...I stopped into the tranny shop that did my rebuild in 2011. Picked his brain for a min. He said it could POSSIBLY be a tranny issue. He suggested not doing the CV axle again. Just as you suggested Crash93ssei, that I could be wasting more money on something that might not fix it. I'm dropping it off to him tomorrow to look over and see if its throwing any transmission codes.

Yeah, I don't have the transmission fluid changed every time as my oil. They just do a "full service" oil change and check fluids and such. I appreciate all the input. I will keep this topic updated. I'm on a mission now to figure this out. I don't ever plan on getting rid of this car, so I might as well.

BTW I'm a girl!

[xcbullet]

On 4x4 Chevys some get a torque converter shutter. Maybe this is same type of problem. Lube guard makes a anti shutter additive for 4x4's might be worth a try. I put some in my truck just to keep from having trouble it can't hurt. Just looks like trans fluid & it's only a few ounces.

[ballstatefan05]

ok, got some good news and some bad news. The bad news is the shop where I took my car to have the struts installed, INSTALLED THE INCORRECT STRUTS!! Monroe DOES NOT make a quick strut for the 05 SE. They installed the quick strut that goes on a 98 Bonneville (my old car), this is according to the shops supplier and per my phone call with Monroe last night. My persistence has paid off. I knew something wasn't right with those struts, especially with the ride height being so off, but the shop kept insisting they were the right ones. Also good news, I went to the old shop (before they closed the doors) and picked up my strut assembly that came off the car knowing in my gut I would possibly need those back!!

The bad news is the shop went OUT OF BUSINESS during this "investigation" of the shudder in my front end so the warranty I had is GONE and I'm going to have to pay labor costs to get this fixed. I'm not sure after finding all of this out I would return to that shop anyway!

But, on a brighter note, the supplier is going to let me swap out struts so I don't have to pay additional part costs. Hopefully putting the right struts on is going to get the suspension sitting where its supposed to be and the shudder will be GONE!!

[Archon]

Did the shudder show up only after the struts were replaced? It's possible that the change in the drive-line could cause it. I do wonder what they had to do to get those struts on. If nothing else, the spring and mount angles are quite different.

[ballstatefan05]

Right, the shudder didn't show up until after new shocks..

I asked the Monroe rep about the bolt pattern, he said they would bolt up fine, just the dimensions are way different..I'm hoping after the new struts this time it will drive great!

[Archon]

The bolt patterns would be the same. However there is an angle to the top mount that wouldn't be there for a '98. The attached picture shows for the 2000+s, which the 90s would be flatter.

[The extension jpg has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]

The '98s would look closer to this, taken from Carl's post on strut replacement.

[ballstatefan05]

The bolt patterns would be the same. However there is an angle to the top mount that wouldn't be there for a '98. The attached picture shows for the 2000+s, which the 90s would be flatter.

Angle.jpg

The '98s would look closer to this, taken from Carl's post on strut replacement.

I definitely get what you are saying, the guy at Monroe told me to get those quick struts off ASAP they do not FIT right!!. My Bonny is sitting at the dealership as we speak waiting on the new struts to be installed tomorrow..I'm sure the different angles and such are what is making all the suspension off. One shop told me the passenger side CV axle was so tight there wasn't a smidge of play in it (both axles are brand new BTW), unlike the other side which wasn't give me any trouble. I don't know if the strut switch is going to fix my initial complaint about the "shudder" when turning and accelerating through turns for sure, but one can only HOPE!! If not, at least I know the struts are right! ?

[crash93ssei]

Monroe DOES make a quick strut that will fit your 2005 SE, you can find them anywhere, not sure what that guy was talking about.

[ballstatefan05]

Monroe DOES make a quick strut that will fit your 2005 SE, you can find them anywhere, not sure what that guy was talking about.

interesting..I looked on the Monroe website and found nothing and the Monroe guy found nothing..

[crash93ssei]

Unless every auto parts place I check is wrong, we have many people here with Monroe quick struts on their 2000+ Bonneville.

[crash93ssei]

Odd, maybe they very recently changed things, I was looking for struts for my '03 SSEi (quick struts would have been the same for your '05 SE) not even two months ago and they had Monroe quick struts everywhere, now I only see them on O'Reillys web page and on Amazon, but no longer on Rockauto.com. The part numbers they list are 181685 and 171685.

[ballstatefan05]

Odd, maybe they very recently changed things, I was looking for struts for my '03 SSEi (quick struts would have been the same for your '05 SE) not even two months ago and they had Monroe quick struts everywhere, now I only see them on O'Reillys web page and on Amazon, but no longer on Rockauto.com. The part numbers they list are 181685 and 171685.

Those part #'s are listed on Monroe.com, but not available for Pontiac.. I don't know dude. kinda strange..