Opinions on Rust Repair

[DrOlds88]

All,
I've got some rust starting on my 93 Bonneville SLE and I'm in need of opinions from the informed owners on this site. My Bonneville has 101,000 miles and runs very well. Recent work includes upper and lower intake gaskets, transmission fluid change, four new tires, front pads/rotors, lower ball joints, rear brake lines, and most general maintenance items. I purchased the car from the original owners who included everything from the window sticker to the last oil change. The car has never been in an accident and has been garaged most of it's life. The car has made several out of state trips in the last year and runs excellent.

My concern is the rust that is starting in the rear. I have a bubble the size of a quarter on the rear passenger side quarter panel just before the back door. I also have rust in the dog legs on both side (no holes yet but they are very rusty), and a spot that can be seen from inside the trunk (again no holes, just a rusty looking spot about 1 inch long near the seam on the bottom passenger side wheel well). The are a few spots on the back driver side door but I'm not too concerned about them yet.

Years ago I had a 1992 Bonneville SE that rotted out to the point that the front sub frame fell out of the car while driving. That car had massive holes in the trunk and floor that I patched with fiberglass while in high school. My fear is that my current Bonneville will head in the same direction if the rust is not dealt with.

My question is, is a repair such as this worth doing or will the rust be a relentless problem? Has anyone else taken their Bonneville to the body shop for such a repair? Would you mind sharing the cost? I plan on heading out to some shops within the next week or two to get estimates but I don't know what to consider a fair estimate. Is there anywhere else I should look for rust? I did read a post to look up at the top of the wheel wells. Except for one spot the size of a dime on the passenger side where the undercoating has chipped away, they are fine. The car is the black one in my photo album. I will try to post pictures of the rust damage within the next day or so.

For those who live in southern Connecticut, are there any body shops you would recommend?

Thanks
- Frank

[MattStrike]

see the link in my sig for the SSEi - I replaced the rear frame under the seat entirely. I don't think mine would have been worth taking it to a body shop. But the sooner you get to it, the smaller the repair has to be and the less it will cost.

Any rust spot that has not broken through - grind it off with a wire wheel and repaint it before it spreads.

Is it worth it, depends on what you want to do with the car. If you're keeping it long term, it would be. If you are going to balance the cost against the value of the car if you sell it, then no.

[DrOlds88]

I've got no plans to sell the car, I really enjoy it. My concern is how much is required to keep it going. I know that part of why I want to get it fixed is how badly my '92 was eaten by the rust. I just worry that given how many of the 92-99 Bonnevilles are eaten by rust that this would be a never ending battle. I'm also concerned about the cost because I have no idea what a reasonable estimate would be. Any tips on what to look for when dealing with a body shop or what they body shop should be looking for on one of these cars?

[MattStrike]

The four rear subframe mounts, front and rear corners of the rocker, the rear frame joint to the rocker, and the frame rails for the rear bumper are the trouble spots for our 'salt belt' cars - because the salt and rocks get kicked up from the tires. The fuel filler neck and tank are next, followed by the floor pans.

Mud flaps, and heavy undercoating (I used bedliner) in the wheel wells and in the direct path of the crud kicked up by the tires is essential. Find a carwash with a good underbody sprayer. Washing weekly (or more if they use a lot of salt by you) will help too. I've seen people who WD-40 their wheel wells before winter as well. Simply put the metal won't rust if it's not exposed so keep it clean and protected.

Sorry I'm not much help on body shop advise. I think most shops will try to replace a panel before they attempt any rust repairs, and if it's heavy rust on frame structure they might not touch it. The last body shop I dealt with wanted $65/hour for labor, the same shop that provided the ~$4500 quote for my '86 after the accident last year.

[gweg_b]

You have to be careful, too. I know that around here, if you take a vehicle in to have it looked at, and it has any structural problems (example would be the subframe mounts), the shop is not legally allowed to release the vehicle to you until the work has been done and paid for. So, even if you go in for an estimate, you may be stuck with having that shop do the repair, whether you wanted them to do it or not.

However, I'm with you on the rust repair. Rust is starting to take my LeSabre, but because that car means a lot to me, I'm going to repair it. I've never done any body work, so I may have to take it into a shop, or I may try and learn to fix it myself. Truth is, I don't even know if there are any shops around me that would even attempt to fix the rust, and I have rust in all the areas mentioned by Matt (including the rear wheel wells).

If I were to make an attempt, the only problem I have now is no place to do it. Our only garage is occupied by my dad's '69 Corvette (which needs put back together). If I had the money and time, I'd hire Matt help me fix the rust!

One thing for sure is, once this is done, I'm coating the wheel wells, underside, and subframe so I can keep this car going for another 20 years.

[DrOlds88]

Pictures of the rusted areas:

Driver side "dog leg"



Driver side "dog leg" from another side



Rear driver side door



Inside of the trunk


Rear quarter panel



Passenger side "dog leg"



The car in general:

[94SilverSSEi]

Pictures of the rusted areas:

Driver side "dog leg"



Driver side "dog leg" from another side



Rear driver side door



Inside of the trunk


Rear quarter panel



Passenger side "dog leg"



The car in general:

That car is mint compared to what I'm driving. That really doesn't look all that bad. Are you able to do any or all of the work yourself? As stated before taking it to a body shop would probably cost you way more than the car is worth, but if you did the labor yourself, the materials themselves wouldn't be that expensive.

[DrOlds88]

94SilverSSEi,

The car is in pretty good shape which is why I am interested in saving it. The only issues I have with it are an exhaust leak (very small), the a/c needs to be recharged, and sometimes the driver side power door lock gets stuck. It cleans up very nicely but in the pictures it hasn't been washed in a week. I try to go through the car wash every two weeks in the winter to keep the salt off of my car.

I don't think I would attempt this myself. When I was in high school I made both back wheel wells out of fiberglass in my 92 Bonneville and did a similar repair on my 93 LeSabre Custom (although that repair was far smaller). That was almost ten years ago and my schedule now as a teacher would make it difficult to complete the project for several months (plus I'm not too sure of my skills anymore).

The weather here is pretty nasty for the next two days. After that I will get a few estimates. I will scan them in to get more opinions on what the shops want to charge. I'm assuming this would be patch jobs and not major body panel replacement? Should I ask the shop any particular questions?

Thanks!

[MattStrike]

Those look like patch jobs to me. But the passenger side has leaked salt into the rocker. Cut the rust out, power wash the inside of the rocker through the hole, and give it a preliminary coat of rustoleum professional or similar rust converting paint. Then let the body shop have at it.

It looks like most of the rust is at the flanges. I don't see a reason for a body shop to replace entire panels in your case.

[DrOlds88]

I went to the local body shop today. They have worked on a few of our cars before and have a good reputation. Here is their estimate:




The person who did the estimate said the rust isn't too bad yet and that it would take about 2 1/2 days to finish.

[2000Silverbullet]

$1000 is exactly what I thought it would cost to repair it properly, when I first started to read this post.

The car is probably worth about $1,500 - $2,000 if it was written off by insurance. Of course our cars are worth a lot more than that to us.
A new car depreciates 30% the first year and then 15% every year after that to a certain point.
An older car like yours will depreciate about $2,000 per year.

My 13 year old Bonne, even tho it's low mileage and in mint condition is only worth about $7,000 or less. To me I value it at $20,000. I'm going to keep it another 10 years so it's worth it to me to keep. I would have to spend more than $40,000 on a new car equivalent......if you can call any new car equivalent, lol.

The only way to properly repair rust is to get rid of it all totally. Patch jobs don't last.

So you have to ask yourself, how long are you going to keep the car and is it worth spending more money on it?

[DrOlds88]

I would like to keep the car another 5-6 years. My daily commute is about 3 miles each way so I don't rack up many miles.

[dz09x]

It is about perspective. Let's face it, most of us Bonneville owners are enthusiasts who really enjoy these cars. If you do decide to let it go and drive it till it rots, remember this, they don't make cars like they used to.

Realistically, think about it. Think about what you would buy to replace it. with 100k on the clock, that car still hasnt even come close to reaching its peak. My family's first bonneville made it to 180k until the first major problem came by... mind you... those 180k miles were not the most well maintained miles.

1000 bucks to keep a very well built and reliable car on the road seems like a good deal. We also can not forget that these cars are very DIY friendly cars which is something that you do not find in most other cars.....(Working on my friends BMW has made me appreciate the Bonneville even more... i have come to the conclusion that the germans have small hands -___-)

Plus.... it is a Bonneville... these cars are becoming rarer by the day(your year especially)..... it is nice to be driving something that has a rich history and still manages to never blend with the cars around it.

[gweg_b]

Exactly how I feel. The older H-bodies were so DIY friendly and built like tanks. If it's worth it too you (which it seems to be), get that rust fixed, and keep driving it.

When I'm done, I'm estimating that I will have spent over $3000 on the restoration of my Buick, which is probably not worth more than $1500. Why? Because it was my first car, saved my life twice, and overall has been the most reliable car I've even driven, and I want to return the favor. To me, I can't put a price on that car, so it's worth keeping and driving for as long as possible.

[Boreas]

Ive taken my car to the body shop for rust repair around the wheel wells, and haven't regretted it given that the rest of the car was great. I took it back again to have the rockers replaced. For me, other than the mechanicals when I first got it, that was really the only place my money went on that car besides gas and oil. For me its worth it because insurance is cheap, I have no monthly payments, and I enjoy what I drive. Basically I translate what I am paying into repairs and body shop visits into monthly payments if I would have bought a new car. If I wanted to buy a new car today, my options are limited because as someone said they don't make them like they used to anymore.

From my cold, dead hands...

[BonneMe]

I'm guessing they won't warranty that either? It looks like a lot of problems are near seams of panels, and could be internal.

With two vehicles that have rust issues, you should really look into an oil based rust proofing once some work is done.

I did some repairs on surface rust areas on my BMW, and was pleased with the result. Two haven't come back yet a year later. There is one area that got sanded down too far when I was trying to wetland the clearcoat smooth started bubbling up again. I didn't have great coverage by the POR-15 there either.