Easier to install Headers with engine in car or out of car?

[67goat]

3 Questions:

1) I haven't decided yet I'm doing headers, but in case I do, is it hard to do when the engine is in? (mine is currently out).

2) Are there only 3 header choices out there? Pacesetter (biggest $), SLP (still big $), or speed daddy (mucho cheap)? From what I've read, some people may have had issues with subsequent exhaust leaks with the speed daddy's, so I'm shying away from those because, exhaust issues is a non-starter with me - has to be done right without band-aids. Of the other two I could see potentially bolting to the back side exhaust ports could be tough maneuvering. Asking because if it is easy, I don't have to decide now on the headers and can wait until after I figure out what engine is going back in my car (dealing with rod bearing issue).

3) How much louder and or raspier would the car be leaving the stock exhaust but running headers. I've heard some videos, but seems most of those are with modified exhausts, which I do not want to do. A long time ago I heard one of these setups, but heard the car only at idle and low rpm - can't recall exactly how loud it would get at higher rpm. I get enough attention with the SC whine thru the fwi

[MattStrike]

I installed my Speed Daddy headers on car, was not difficult. I only had to remove a few parts that were in the way (strut style trans mount, radiator fan).

They don't leak, the only problem with them is a ticking noise that I believe is due to the flex joint or the clamp on the down-pipe.

Open headers weren't necessarily louder than open stock manifolds (pre-cat.), but the tone is way different.

[yourgrandma]

Definately would be easier with the trans out, but I'm not sure about with the engine out. Getting the engine in without hitting the headers on anything might be hard. They're a bit of work to install, no two ways about it.

My speed daddys don't leak after 16months. Get band clamps and either reuse your gaskets or get the felpros. The only other possible weakpoint is the flex joint. Mine made some noise at one point but is quiet now.

The sound is way different. Through an exhaust or not. Tough to decribe, but its sort of more of a growl than before. Not intrusive at all, but your ears will perk up when you hear it.

[67goat]

Oh, found a 4th option - TOG headers.

Thanks for the comment on the Speed Daddy's. So I understand the terms everyone is using - the crossover pipe is the one that goes over the trans & connects to the back headers, and the down pipe is the one that connects the back header to the Cat? Is this right or am I missing something? So downpipe would have to likely be welded to eliminate the ticking? If my terms are right here, I'm guessing welding mounted in the car is plausible around the cat, but higher up would be tricky. If I have the whole cradle dropped with the engine & trans out, could be welded before mounted back up. Although the cost of Speed Daddy's is conducive, I would go nuts with any ticking or leaks, so would want to make sure the exhaust is seamless.

Any thoughts from the '00+ crowd? I might be picking up an L32 at a decent price, so might have wiggle room to pay for quality headers (can't tell my wife though).

[yourgrandma]

Your terms are correct. Welding them in would make it impossible to remove them intact, so clamping really is the best option. The speed daddys are built surprisingly well. Very thick flanges, nice welds, etc. They fit perfectly. If you want to be extra sure about having no leaks, get a different flex section welded on. Ive heard of them going bad, but mine is fine. Other than that theres really nothing that can go wrong. My downpipe has a little surface rust on the bottom, probably where rocks and road debris have pitted the stainless steel.

[96sebonnie]

a little off topic but where can you get a set of speed daddy headers everywhere says out of stock???

[67goat]

Your terms are correct. Welding them in would make it impossible to remove them intact, so clamping really is the best option. The speed daddys are built surprisingly well. Very thick flanges, nice welds, etc. They fit perfectly. If you want to be extra sure about having no leaks, get a different flex section welded on. Ive heard of them going bad, but mine is fine. Other than that theres really nothing that can go wrong. My downpipe has a little surface rust on the bottom, probably where rocks and road debris have pitted the stainless steel.

Ah, good to know. So if it is the flex part that has the ticking everyone talks about on the speed daddy's, I'm wondering if the TOG flex piece would be long enough to fit. Looks like ZZP sells them separately. HOWEVER, they look like similar pieces and seems ridiculous that one would tick and the other not. I would guess fitment is key - the speed daddy's are either 6 separate pieces or 5 depending on which picture you find, so either clamp or weld together which leaves more opportunity for leaks (ie - the exhaust ticking). Now I just went to Speed Daddy's website and it looks like the 97-03 Headers are out of stock anyway ZZP seems to also have a header option, but I see no flex section for the downpipe. I never thought it would be so hard just to choose a set of headers - the old V-8's are so much easier.

[67goat]

Well, with limited choices, just ordered TOG headers. That investment definitely means this car will be around for quite a while...