PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

We had this on BPro and I thought it was a great idea, especially for specialty tools pertaining to our cars.

I'm on board with this.

As a tool nut, yes.

I think it would be a good touch to the site. Just make sure to weed out any COO wars, I get enough of that over at the GJ forums.

COO?

Country of origin? If it was made overseas or not?

Oh, got it...

I guess I see it as though everything, including our own product (for the most part), comes from China, so...

I also agree that this is a great idea. Whenever I buy tools I look for the one that has the best user reviews. Any company can say their tools are the best, but it all comes down to how well they actually perform in real world scenarios.

Yeah, and then we can make a "Share your tool box" Thread!

Edit: and a "Share your Workbench" thread!

Maybe a general product/service review area? There's so much out there in the automotive sector where it's hard to decide what's the best option to go with.

Part of the problem now is too, there is soo much specialty tools out there now. Kent Moore, Lisle, etc, all make specialty stuff specific to engines and manufacturers specs. So that skews things.

However, from my days of putting food on the table and clothes on my back by working in service, I won't use anything but Snap-On (preferred), or Mac or Matco as secondary choices. And I work for Sears! We oft get into these topics here and I actually bring in my Snap-On pieces as well as an equivalent Craftsman to show them what separates the two.

CMNTMXR57 wrote:However, from my days of putting food on the table and clothes on my back by working in service, I won't use anything but Snap-On (preferred), or Mac or Matco as secondary choices. And I work for Sears! We oft get into these topics here and I actually bring in my Snap-On pieces as well as an equivalent Craftsman to show them what separates the two.

With that being said, what tools are worth the money to buy Snap-On verses other brands that are good enough for even entry level shop work?(Craftsman)

I'm asking for specifics, not generalities.

I've invested in SO ratchets and TQ wrenches (even though SO doesn't make their own). Wondering what else is worth the extra investment and hassle should they break.

corvettecrazy wrote:

CMNTMXR57 wrote:However, from my days of putting food on the table and clothes on my back by working in service, I won't use anything but Snap-On (preferred), or Mac or Matco as secondary choices. And I work for Sears! We oft get into these topics here and I actually bring in my Snap-On pieces as well as an equivalent Craftsman to show them what separates the two.

With that being said, what tools are worth the money to buy Snap-On verses other brands that are good enough for even entry level shop work?(Craftsman)

I'm asking for specifics, not generalities.

I've invested in SO ratchets and TQ wrenches (even though SO doesn't make their own). Wondering what else is worth the extra investment and hassle should they break.

Buy what works for you. I'll be heading into the field soon either as a Cadillac or Mercedes Benz tech and Craftsman has worked just fine for me. There are many opinions on it but don't let others pressure you into buying the absolute best and everything else be *dang*. If anything, the tool trucks are good for specialty tools specific to manufacturers.

If you are a full time professional mechanic/technician then only the very best will do, Snap On, Facom, Stahwille, James Neil, most developed industrial nations have their own excellent tool manufacturers. Use whichever you like, all top quality tools carry lifetime guarantees which will be honoured without question in the very rare event of failure.

If you are a weekend hobby mechanic there is no need to go to this expense, if a tool fails that doesn't mean you can't finish a job for which you are being paid a tech's salary. Plenty of decent quality tools available from auto parts stores, Sears etc at reasonable prices.

If you buy tools from Dollar General or similar cut price stores you will get poorly made ill fitting tools that might cause more problems if they round off a tight fitting bolt head for example.
I have bought such tools when I've been stuck away from home without my tools, if they get me going again they will have paid for themselves.

You might liken this to buying tires for your car, if you are a high mileage driver using your car to make a living it pays long term to buy the best tires available, If you only drive a few miles a week and don't open it up on the highway budget tires might make more sense.

Roger.

corvettecrazy wrote:

CMNTMXR57 wrote:However, from my days of putting food on the table and clothes on my back by working in service, I won't use anything but Snap-On (preferred), or Mac or Matco as secondary choices. And I work for Sears! We oft get into these topics here and I actually bring in my Snap-On pieces as well as an equivalent Craftsman to show them what separates the two.

With that being said, what tools are worth the money to buy Snap-On verses other brands that are good enough for even entry level shop work?(Craftsman)

I'm asking for specifics, not generalities.

I've invested in SO ratchets and TQ wrenches (even though SO doesn't make their own). Wondering what else is worth the extra investment and hassle should they break.

A couple of the posters after me pretty much hit the nail on the head.

If you're doing it as a profession (which I was), you want the best and most efficient tool available. Those are generally the Snap-On, Mac, and Matco tools. You could throw in Cornwell there too. You get paid via a book time. Meaning, in many ways, you're paid to push metal through the pipeline (I.E. the service department). If your tools are inefficient and can't get the job done quickly and correctly because of "slop" in their mechanisms which cause you to take more time to get the job done and work around things other ways, you're losing money and the guy who can work quickly and efficiently will get the next car in line...

If you're a weekend warrior, home owner, etc, there is absolutely nothing wrong with Craftsman. I have plenty of general Craftsman tools that I use around the house. Mainly because I get them for dirt cheap in our sample store and they work great for their intended use. But when I'm working on cars, the Craftsman stay in the cabinet. However, please buy them, it keeps me employed.

What makes the difference is the overall precision between a Snap-On/Mac/Matco and a Craftsman. Albeit we (Craftsman), now have a nice professional grade ratchet that is a pretty nice unit too and I will probably pick one up.

I will compare to Snap-On as that is what I have and am familiar with (family used to work at Snap-On HQ so I spent quite a bit of time doing research on the product too)...

A simple 3/8th's inch ratch for example;
1) Degree of rotation between clicks: Snap-On takes 4.5* of rotation for each click. A standard Craftsman is upwards of 8* - 10* (depending on model). That may seem insignifigant, but when you're in tight confines and only have a smidge of room to rotate the handle any bit, 4.5* vs. 10* is a HUGE issue. And yes, many GM vehicles are extremely tight to work on, especially in FWD applications.

2) Pawl Contact: 7 gear teeth are always in contact with the pawl internally on the Snap-On (which is where the strength comes in), I think Craftsman is only 4.

3) Total teeth: Snap-On 80, regular Craftsman 45, Craftsman pro (this is a really nice ratchet BTW), 84.

4) Head size: Snap-On's are compact, dependent on Craftsman model, they can be fairly large. Again in tight confines, especially as engines and engine bays keep getting more complex and compact, this is a critical component.

4) Both offer multiple styles, heads, handle options, but here is also no contest. A Snap-On/Mac/Matco offers endless varieties of ratchets, from flex head, bent handles, to palmies and thumbies (literally ratchets you use with your fingers when even having a handle is too much). Crow-feet ratchet heads in fixed and flex varieties to boot.

5) Snap-On sells rebuild kits for their ratchets $(10 - $15), allowing you to repair them yourself if it is deemed that it's lifetime replacement warranty isn't needed.

For wrenches;
1) Flank Drive: Snap-On yes. Craftsman no as they're a conventional setup.

What is flank drive (this also can apply to Snap-On sockets too)? When you're using a wrench, and you're applying your torque, your concentrating your energy on the corners of the bolt/nut. This is the weakest point of the socket where failure typically results and this is where damage to the bolt/nut occurs in the form of rounding off. Flank drive eliminates this, by providing flat face to face contact with the bolt/nut conectrating your energies there and eliminatiing wrench/socket failure and potential rounding off of the bolt/nut.

Where I DON'T buy Snap-On is on their power tool side and that is one area where Craftsman betters them, especially anything in the C3 line. There isn't anything wrong with the Snap-On/Blue point stuff, just that it usually is rebranded and replacement parts are not easy to come by to start with (not just because it's from Snap-On). I know, I have several Snap-On cordless tools and it is a PITA. On the other hand, I'm loving my Craftsman C3 tools, particularly my cordless impact. 1/2 drive, 200lb/ft of torque. I upgraded to the Lithium-Ion XCP battery and it runs forever on the charge changing wheels and suspension parts endlessly and since then I've been snapping up other C3 tools when I see them in the sample store.

I fully respect opinions on this but what I was always taught was, "Its not the tools that make the mechanic, its a knowledgeable mechanic using the correct tool for the job that makes him". There are bad mechanics out there who have a truck load of Snap On but can't turn a wrench without snapping something as there are good mechanics out there who are great at what they do.

Yea, I worked with all of them it would seem...

I've been using Kobalt - lifetime hassle free warranty. They are similar quality lately to craftsman, but I have some of the older sets of their tools which were made by Danaher Corp. (who owns Matco), and there is a big difference in quality.

On the subject of power tools, I LOVE my new Milwaukee M12 Fuel cordless small impact. Brushless motor, even with the tiny batteries it has it lasts forever, and it has a ton of power for its size. We got a set of the M18 tools for at home as well (Drill, Impact, Sawzall, Circular Saw, Grinder and light) and all the tools are awesome. This all replaced our C3 Craftsman stuff, which was good and lasted a long time, but the Milwaukee stuff is amazing.

My next tool will be a M12 3/8" Ratchet.

For what it's worth, I think a tool review and/or a tool comment section would be great. Some tools, especially the specialty ones that the professionals know about and the weekend "warrior" don't, would be of great help to someone like me. - BC