PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

The timing couldn't be worse as I'm on a budget but nothing I can do about that. I have now convinced myself my car is very slowly but surely drinking coolant out of the reservoir. Coolant looks like the day it came out of the jug. No milkshaking whatsoever in the oil and no condensation on the cap. No leaks can be found anywhere. The gaskets are the black plastic ones so I don't think they've ever been changed. I think it's in the early stages but I want to get fixed ASAP. I hate to burn up a strong running engine with only 94k on the clock. Part of me wants to take it in and let a pro do the work but I would love to save the $ and have the satisfaction of doing it myself. With the resources on here, videos I found on youtube and a set of service manuals I think it can be done. I've only done general maintenance on vehicles (oil change, plugs wires, brakes, etc) I've done a fair amount of in depth small engine work. IS THIS SOMETHING I CAN PULL OFF MYSELF OR AM I ASKING FOR TROUBLE???

I need a parts list, here's what I've come up with so far. I know there's all kinds of online sites to get things but I feel I'd sleep better at night if it all comes from the dealership even though it may cost a few extra bucks (will prob all go on my credit card anyway):
GM's latest L67 aluminum LIM gasket
supercharger gasket
GM RTV gasket maker
GM thread sealant
new fuel injector O-rings (how many do I need?)
aluminum coolant elbows (which I already have)
Please add whatever I may have missed...

My valve cover gaskets are showing no signs of leakage but is it a good idea to replace while I'm down there?
Some other random supplies:
distilled water
extra coolant
will I need to do an oil change again?(I just changed it)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2ZbFwTNjhg
This youtube video seems pretty helpful. Any specialty tools I will need aside from a torque wrench?
Any helpful tips, hints, or past threads or experience tips are much appreciated.
How much am I looking at spending on parts overall?

ya I just did 2 LIM changes for some Grand Prix guys in my local club.

LIM Gaskets......(you don't have to do the GM LIM Metals, FelPro Sells them in Alum, as well....its your option really what ever you want).
Valve cover gaskets. (your in there and its insanely easy to change the rear while your there, also do the VC grommets, they will come with Fel pro the kit)
Supercharger Gasket (again GM or Felpro)
Permatex Ultra Copper RTV (this is used in the corners of the LIM gaskets)
Permatex thread sealand (for the LIM bolts)
Metal Coolant elbows
Fuel O rings (will come in the kit with the VC gaskets)
Coolant
Oil

please get the torque sequence of the LIM correct along with the Supercharger, the specs are posted here. That is all you have to really worry about getting torqued, everything else just use your calibrated elbow

I'm in the same boat as you but it will be on my 2003 SLE. So I'm suggesting you change out your UIM gasket as well. In fact, many suggest to change the UIM plenum as well as there are issues with warping, cracking, and the EGR stovepipe area (which can cause these leaks). There are UIM plenums that are thicker in some areas and a smaller stovepipe (Dorman) and I think there are UIM plenums that have a "heat shield" installed in the EGR stovepipe area. I would not go through all that work without replacing the gasket and plenum.

I would change your valve cover gaskets as well...these commonly leak. Especially since the right side is more difficult to get to and you already will have the tensioner and alternator off (among other things)

Not sure if you've seen but there is a good write-up in the "Tech Info" on replacing these gaskets. It won't match your vehicle exactly but alot of similarities.

I will be taking on my project in a couple weeks and I too have looked at this website, youtube, and my GM service manual. I think it is VERY do-able as long as your careful. I find it easiest to go in with a game plan and study everything beforehand to get familiar with what you'll be doing. You'll be draining your coolant and refilling as well so you'll need to know that procedure which you can find in your GM service manual or this website. Now may be the time to get rid of your Dex-cool as well.

I'd like to give you a list of things but I haven't compiled it myself. I'm getting an UIM that has all the gaskets/seals included so I'll be replacing those. I'm also putting in a new thermostat and a serpentine belt while I'm at it.

chisox.fan wrote:I'm in the same boat as you but it will be on my 2003 SLE. So I'm suggesting you change out your UIM gasket as well. In fact, many suggest to change the UIM plenum as well as there are issues with warping, cracking, and the EGR stovepipe area (which can cause these leaks). There are UIM plenums that are thicker in some areas and a smaller stovepipe (Dorman) and I think there are UIM plenums that have a "heat shield" installed in the EGR stovepipe area. I would not go through all that work without replacing the gasket and plenum.


I will be taking on my project in a couple weeks and I too have looked at this website, youtube, and my GM service manual. I think it is VERY do-able as long as your careful. I find it easiest to go in with a game plan and study everything beforehand to get familiar with what you'll be doing. You'll be draining your coolant and refilling as well so you'll need to know that procedure which you can find in your GM service manual or this website. Now may be the time to get rid of your Dex-cool as well.

I don’t have a UIM gasket or plenum since it’s a supercharged engine. Dex cool eats the plastic but with the aluminum ones it’s not an issue and I like the extended service life of it so I think I will stick with it, for now anyways.

2003 SSEi wrote:ya I just did 2 LIM changes for some Grand Prix guys in my local club.

LIM Gaskets......(you don't have to do the GM LIM Metals, FelPro Sells them in Alum, as well....its your option really what ever you want).
Valve cover gaskets. (your in there and its insanely easy to change the rear while your there, also do the VC grommets, they will come with Fel pro the kit)
Supercharger Gasket (again GM or Felpro)
Permatex Ultra Copper RTV (this is used in the corners of the LIM gaskets)
Permatex thread sealand (for the LIM bolts)
Metal Coolant elbows
Fuel O rings (will come in the kit with the VC gaskets)
Coolant
Oil

please get the torque sequence of the LIM correct along with the Supercharger, the specs are posted here. That is all you have to really worry about getting torqued, everything else just use your calibrated elbow

Thanks, I will add these to my list. And I suppose I will break down and buy the valve cover gaskets too. I still need to look in my service manual but I’m sure all the torque specs and sequences will be in there. I will be studying those tonight and taking notes as well as marking baggies for all the bolts that will be coming out. Thanks for the help. OH, what does VC stand for?

Oops....oversight by me....sorry about that. It was early in the morning.

Yes, you will definably need to change the oil. You will contaminate it when you change the gasket.

A few tips.

Pull the alternator and bypass bracket and then pop the thermostat out... you can then take moderate pressure compressed air and blow the rest of the coolant out of the LIM, so you get less into the oil.

Get shop towels and put in each of the intake holes (before you start scrapping the gasket remains out, be careful not to let the crud fall into the lower end.)

If you have the valve covers off at the same time make sure to cover them with a clean towel.

Get a GOOD (read carbon) gasket scraper and be careful you are scrapping aluminum!

I get some junk oil, I mean the cheapest crap on the shelf and after I have everything buttoned up I drain the old oil and put in the junk oil. I start it and run it for a minute or so and then shut it down and change it to what I regularly run and make sure you change the filter too.

All surfaces that have contact with the gasket should be decreased.... After properly cleaning the area make sure that it is free from oil and grease before installing gaskets.

Oh! One other very important thing, with all holes covered and rags over everything, before you get to cleaning and scrapping, blow out the LIM holes to remove any oil or coolant. This is VERY important because if there is fluid in there it will throw off proper torquing of the bolts. I would replace the LIM bolts as well... they can stretch and bottom out.

Note: You can shoot some brake cleaner or the like down the bolt holes to loosen and crud in there before you blow them out. Take a shop towel and wrap around your airline when you blow them out to catch the crud and to save it from going all over and also into your face. As when doing anything on a car... wear safety glasses!

PS This is a great time to change your supercharger fluid, as you will have it off the car and can simply take the plug out and turn the charger to drain the fluid. When on the car you are stuck trying to suck it out... read pain in the ass.

BonnieBoy08 wrote: OH, what does VC stand for?

Valve Cover

IIRC, the GM supercharger gasket did not include the 2 O rings, while the Felpro did. If you go with the GM gasket, double check that, as you may have to buy those separately.

chisox.fan wrote:Oops....oversight by me....sorry about that. It was early in the morning.

Haha no worries, I'm usually not functional in the morning until I've had at least 3 cups of coffee

2003 SSEi wrote:

BonnieBoy08 wrote: OH, what does VC stand for?

Valve Cover

Thanks. So if I ask for valve cover grommets at the dealership they will know what I'm talking about? What are they exactly and how many of them are there?

Archon wrote:IIRC, the GM supercharger gasket did not include the 2 O rings, while the Felpro did. If you go with the GM gasket, double check that, as you may have to buy those separately.

o-rings as in for the injectors? Or something else?

Orings for the coolant passages. Usually yellow, maybe about the size of a quarter.

Trinity wrote:Yes, you will definably need to change the oil. You will contaminate it when you change the gasket.

A few tips.

Pull the alternator and bypass bracket and then pop the thermostat out... you can then take moderate pressure compressed air and blow the rest of the coolant out of the LIM, so you get less into the oil.

Get shop towels and put in each of the intake holes (before you start scrapping the gasket remains out, be careful not to let the crud fall into the lower end.)

If you have the valve covers off at the same time make sure to cover them with a clean towel.

Get a GOOD (read carbon) gasket scraper and be careful you are scrapping aluminum!

I get some junk oil, I mean the cheapest crap on the shelf and after I have everything buttoned up I drain the old oil and put in the junk oil. I start it and run it for a minute or so and then shut it down and change it to what I regularly run and make sure you change the filter too.

All surfaces that have contact with the gasket should be decreased.... After properly cleaning the area make sure that it is free from oil and grease before installing gaskets.

Oh! One other very important thing, with all holes covered and rags over everything, before you get to cleaning and scrapping, blow out the LIM holes to remove any oil or coolant. This is VERY important because if there is fluid in there it will throw off proper torquing of the bolts. I would replace the LIM bolts as well... they can stretch and bottom out.

Note: You can shoot some brake cleaner or the like down the bolt holes to loosen and crud in there before you blow them out. Take a shop towel and wrap around your airline when you blow them out to catch the crud and to save it from going all over and also into your face. As when doing anything on a car... wear safety glasses!

PS This is a great time to change your supercharger fluid, as you will have it off the car and can simply take the plug out and turn the charger to drain the fluid. When on the car you are stuck trying to suck it out... read pain in the ass.

Thanks for your input, this will help a lot I think! Few things to clarify:

Where will I be blowing air into? And then I will catch the coolant where the thermostat goes I’m guessing?

Be careful when scraping aluminum as in make sure the scraper is on plane with the intake so I don’t gouge anything?

How adamant are you on replacing LIM bolts? They sound expensive. Bear in mind there is only 94,000 on the engine and to the best of my knowledge it was never beaten and has always been well maintained. (guy I bought it from was older gentleman and had car since 21,000 miles)

How much oil do these things hold again? I have like half bottle from previous owner at home, IIRC they are 8oz. I have the Eaton M90 of course (I’m sure you already knew that haha)

Another question? How much coolant can I plan on draining? I have 2 gallons at home (so will be 4 gallons mixed) Will that be enough or do I need to pick up another jug?

4 gallons should be plenty. I'd not buy parts from the GM dealer, mostly because they normally have the highest markup. Only GM part I'd consider using would be the Aluminum gaskets, because I've heard of issues with the Fel-Pro's. Lots of people have used them with no issues, so YMMV. Everything else the aftermarket has on good terms. You'll likely need to buy new fuel injector o-rings as well, when I did my VC's last they didn't come with o-rings, so I'd do an inventory at least to check.

The two o-rings Archon refers to seal off the coolant passages at the TB end of the S/C.

Thanks Ed, any idea on VC grommets? What those are for or how many I need?

The grommets are for the bolts. Get the FelPro kit, they come with it. There is 7 bolts per VC, IIRC, should be 14 grommets.

Hey guys, I've been off line a very long time so take my advice for what it's worth. Anyhow, here goes:

While I think that it's probably time for you to replace that lower intake gasket, do not forget to verify that your coolant isn't leaking fom somewhere else instead/too/also. A few things to eliminate just to make sure are the water pump, hairline cracks in your radiator header and pinhole leaks in your rad hoses. I know that you said that there are no leaks but I just want to make sure you've checked these areas.

Your water pump can leak (weep as some say) and be very un-noticed. Check below the shaft at the weep hole and make sure that there isn't any evidence of dried coolant below the pump shaft and housing.

The plastic radiator headers can develop a hairline crack at the seam which will often not be noticed unless the coolant is hot and under pressure. It can leak as steam, leaving little to no evidence that you have a leak.

Rad hose pin holes are often not noticeable unless you run the engine to temp and watch the rad hoses carefully. Pinhole leaks often only open up under heat and pressure and sometimes they spray on the ground or in other areas where you would not normally notice.

Do yourself a favor and do these simple checks to make sure you don't suffer from severe frustration later if the coolant keeps disappearing after you do your LIM gasket replacement.

Ask me how I know...

Finally got this done last weekend and it feels good not to baby my car along anymore! I opted to let a pro carry out the work after pricing parts at the dealership. I know a mechanic who works for Miller Auto in St. Cloud and does work at his house on the side so I took it to him and he turned the car around in less than 24hrs!

What I all had replaced:

LIM gasket- upgraded to GM aluminum one
Valve cover gaskets
Supercharger oil change
supercharger gasket
upgraded to aluminum coolant elbows
switched to 180 deg thermostat

She runs great and I'm problem free so far! I diagnosed problem correctly, he said LIM gasket was definately bad and leaking coolant. I was very close to the "milkshaking" stage so my timing was good. Valve cover gaskets were also starting to compress, he said they had been done before and upgraded to the red ones. Since then there has been another upgrade and I now have blue ones. Everything was done neatly and I'm trouble free so far. Cash money and no receipt makes me a little nervous but he's a pretty straight shooter and he rebuilt the transmission in my Grand Prix for me a few years back. Appreciate all the help and advice but for the marginal money difference I decided it wasn't worth the hassle of something going wrong. Are the aluminum LIM gaskets good for life now or is there a chance they will need to be replaced again down the road?