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Ok I know this has been discussed a lot of times, and I've read quite a lot about these. I was told basic mods would include FWI. I have also seen people suggesting 180 thermostat for a cheap mod. But the thing is that for FWI and basic stage 1 mod, it usually lists for SSEI on intense or ZZP, so I'm confused do those FWI and other basic mods included in Stage 1 package not support SLE ?

I have been going through the maintenance list posted on here to tackle those issues first and have done some repairs so the car is mechinically fine with few maintenance items left that will be tackled on this weekend.

I am not planning on taking this to track or anything, I need just a bit quicker acceleration, to make it more fun to drive. With that said after the maintenance, what should i go with that will give the best gains without breaking the budget?

The SSEi is supercharged, and many of the kits include smaller supercharger pulleys and S/C specific tunes.

Honestly, before you spend a dime on mods, spend your money doing the maintenance. Replacing the Upper Intake manifold to the new unit, lower intake manifold gaskets with ones that won't fail, replacing wear items like spark plugs, wires, etc. It's in this list:

• 1987-2005 Bonneville / Buick 3800 Maintenance List
  
  Grease: Ball Joints, Tie Rods Every 8-10k ( Green Grease or Amsoil Grease recommended)
  Air Filter Every 15k (Amsoil EaA, Purolator PureONE)
  PCV Valve Every 30k
  MAF Sensor Element Cleaning/TB Cleaning Every 50k viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1661
  Fuel Filter Every 15-25k (Purolator, AC Delco, WIX) http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... 45&t=23215
  Spark Plugs Every 30-50k (NGK TR55, AC Delco 41-101 or Autolite 605) (Never Bosch)
  Ignition Wires Every 30-50k (Napa Belden, AC Delco, Autolite Pro, NGK) (Never Taylor or Bosch)
  Oil & Filter Every 5-6k or Every 6 months (Valvoline SYNPower, Pennzoil Platinum, or Amsoil )(Mobil1, Purolator PureONE, Amsoil EaO, K&N or WIX) (Never Fram) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=214
  *Conventional Oil Every 3k/3 months(API SM/SN rating) (WIX (Napa), Delco or Purolator filter)
  Tires: Check Inflation Pressure & Visually Inspect Monthly Rotate Every 6-8,000 Miles
  Transmission Flush or Pan Drop Every 15-20k (Always make sure filter is changed when flushed) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=10193
  Cooling System Flush Every 25-50k or 3-5 Years (Peak or Prestone Mixes-With-Any Coolant Recommended)
  Oxygen Sensor Every 80-100k (30k for non-heated) (AC Delco or Denso) (Absolutely never Bosch) viewtopic.php?f=48&t=794
  Accessory Belt Inspect every 15k, replace every 100k, or as needed
  Cabin Air Filter Inspect and Replace every 15k, or as needed in dusty conditions. (Note: 00+ Only) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=13626
  Evap Core Cleaning Whenever Needed (Note: 99 and older only) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2432
  Brake Fluid Flush 3yr/50k
  Power Steering Fluid Replacement/Flush Every 100k or 5 years
  
  *Special Considerations*
  All Series II/III 3800's RPO's: L36, L26, L67 & L32, especially important on vehicles factory installed with orange Havoline Dexcool Antifreeze/Coolant: http://www.dex-cool.net/
  Lower Intake Manifold Gasket Replacement, every 80-100k (ignorance of this can allow coolant to enter your engine oil, this happening can cause irreversible lower engine damage, requiring replacement of subject engine)
  
  Series II, Naturally Aspirated, RPO:L36:
  Upper Intake Manifold Plenum Replacement, Every 80-100k (ignorance of this can allow coolant to enter your intake manifold, possible damage to occur can be hydrolock, irreversible damage to emissions devices, misfires, etc. Most times, engine replacement is required if ignored long enough.) viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1061
  
  Series I, II, III RPO Code L67 & L32:
  Change Supercharger Oil; Every 30-50k. (Intense Racing or GM Dealer) viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1690
  Supercharger Belt; Inspect Every 15k, Replace Every 100k or as needed.

Yes, I've read this list and have been tackling down things on that list that havent been replaced by the previous owner. I was wondering what would i begin with after those maintenance items have been done

What is your mileage? If you're serious about making any kind of gains you can feel: top swap.

Here's my take, from owning a Bonneville for almost 5 years now, and putting well over $1k in performance mods into my car, on top of several thousand more in maintenance, new tranny, tires, exterior and interior mods, etc.: Leave it alone and drive it. There isn't anything THAT wrong with the stock setup. The gain per dollar, especially on the N/A cars, is terrible. Save your money from mods on this one and put them into something that's actually worth modding, and you don't have to wonder everyday whether the Bonne is going to start, if it's gonna be running right, etc. Leave your daily driver alone. It's a good car to begin with, and without spending several thousand dollars on it, you're not going to make it better enough to justify the cost.

I won't say whether or not you should mod your vehicle, as I still have plans for my almost 20 year old Buick, and no matter what anyone says, I'm going to keep going with it. But, there are some things I agree with Ed on. It was almost 4 years before I was able to mod my Bonneville to the point that it actually became faster. Those 4 years were spent on maintenance, tracking down electrical gremlins, rebuilding the top end of the engine (twice), and generally just trying to keep the car running (actually I'm still fixing it up - I was attempting to fix all the leaks before winter came).

When I managed to start adding go-fast parts, what did I get in return? Very high levels of knock (8*+ at WOT). So, I have to baby the car now, and it kind of bums me out. Of course, you won't really have to worry about it as much with a N/A engine.

So, some things like a FWI, thermostat, a high-flow cat, and possibly mufflers (for sound only), are really the basic no-brainers as they help your engine out, and can equal better MPG's (and a tad bit more power). Those are probably the best basic mods for your car, that won't cost you an arm and a leg. For anything else, some of the N/A 3800 guys would have to give you info, as I've never really looked into what's out there for those engines.

I've messed with an L36 Bonneville for 10 years now and have no regrets about it.

You just have to realize the best you're going to get with no valvetrain mods is 165-170whp, with rockers is 180-190ish whp and the best you'll see cammed is 230-240whp. And by best I mean all the bolt ons with those setups.

Top swaps aren't that hard mechanically, but having the the tuning access and knowledge to go with it isn't always there. Without the latter, there really is no point.

And a 4t65 trans will only last as long as you allow it to with proper fluid changes and driving habbits.

Depending on where you're located, you may find someone who can give your top swap car an in car tune which would be grand. Not only that but you get the high comp pistons which means MOAR power. Trouble is, you're gonna love it. Which means you're going to grenade your trans.

Even then, if I still had a good looking Bonneville, I would go top swap. Mainly because I have an FWI, ported intake and exhaust manifolds, colder plugs, and a conservative tune on my N/A car and I've dropped maybe a second tops in my 0-60. To the people used to stock L36's my car is quick, and they're all like oh wow your car is fast.. And then I'm all like woah.. Is that 4 cylinder Camry with plastic wheels keeping up with me? Yup. It sure is....

To help put it more in perspective, 190 WHP is a little bit LESS than where most factory L67 cars are at. So you'll end up about the same as a stock L67 except with less torque. So you will still probably be slower. Let's say the L67 guy gets headers, then he's pulling on you once again... Pulley drop? You're toast.

Basically, unless you want to shell out the dough for a cam and all the work involved.. Go boost or go home.

Or listen to Ed, and leave the car as a DD and buy a dedicated toy. Having a project car for a DD is not a happy time.

nos4blood70 wrote: Having a project car for a DD is not a happy time.

I beg to differ, but I'm crazy.

My take - L67 swap. Grab the whole drivetrain. It's almost the same as a bolt-on, I'd call it a bolt-in mod. Probably faster and easier than trying to build up the N/A. Unless you like the challenge, and prefer to build the N/A. In which case, turbo & tune.

So I see modding L36, has a bit of different views on it, while some say go for it, the other say no esp if its a DD.

The thing that scares me is that it has 225k, and i've been advised before that if the tranny hasnt been changed (idk if it has) then expect to have it changed sooner or later.

Few months ago, one of the ignition coil was misifring so i had it replaced, and the car felt so light and much better at accelerationg but after but now it feels heavy, it still goes but takes time. I had a mechanic drive it and he said engine mount was broken but said its running smooth so dont do a tune up now if its smoothly running. Engine mount was replaced and it almost feels the same to me. Basically I would be happy with how i felt when ignition coil was changed.

And to those who suggested top swap, i understand without spending tons of money i can barely come close to L67. But as mentioned above i just need a bit better acceleration, so will a intense Stage 1 ($229) do or leave it as is given the mileage (225k). Cause I am afraid if i mod it and tranny goes bad or head gasket or some major part.

All responses are welcomed, Thank you!

Head gaskets won't go. But with that mileage and the fact that you're unsure of the originality of the trans, I wouldn't mod this car for performance to crazily. I would build my own intake and source a tune somewhere else. That's basically all that the INTENSE stage 1 package is for the N/A. If you can't get a in-car tune, then I would suggest contacting Will at Overkill. His tunes take a bit of time to get since he's up in Canada, but I've never heard anything short of amazing things about them.

Yes, if i do mod it, ill just do stage 1 kit, that's it. Though I understand building my own intake will be cheaper than FWI, but given that i have pretty much no knowledge on these, would i be better off just purchasing the stage 1 kit? and along that if i dont get a pcm tuned (from intense) are those mods not gonna show any affect? If i do send them my PCM, how long it takes until they send it back? Any experiences, anyone? Thank you

With the PCM tuning, I would try and find a junkyard PCM to send to the them as a core so you can retain your stock PCM. That way you have a drivable car while you wait.

I would do ER rockers to get the most bang for your buck.

http://shop.zzperformance.com/store/p/2 ... ckers.aspx

https://www.easyperformance.com/support ... rm-testing

Rockers alone would probably give you twice as much whp than an intake and cookie cutter tune.

You can run rockers on a stock tune and you don't need upgraded springs with sub 6000 rpm shift points.

Woah, those gains are impressive! would you say with high mileage i would be fine getting those? and hows the installation like?

Also nos4blood, that was my original idea, but then i came across case learn and security relearn things and was scared to mess up on anything :/

firstbonnei1994 wrote:Woah, those gains are impressive! would you say with high mileage i would be fine getting those? and hows the installation like?

Also nos4blood, that was my original idea, but then i came across case learn and security relearn things and was scared to mess up on anything :/

High mileage you would be fine. Those are nowhere near as stressful for your motor as boost is. The security relearn is easy peasy. As for the CASE learn, I haven't had one done since I got a new PCM in November. As far as I can tell there are no issues, but I'll let someone more knowledgable chime in about that. Just so it's clear I am not suggesting you drive around without one done, the only reason I have been is because it wasn't till recently that I found out you need one done after a PCM swap.