PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

This is pretty sad.
I had a frind of mine that is shopping for a good, fun and reliable used car. He told me he liked my car and asked me what it was and if I would recommend it.
After thinking long and hard, I had to say no!

After I thought about all the problems I have had with mine over the years, I realized that thought it's fun when it's working right, it's very rare that there is nothing wrong with it.

The transmission has known issues with hard shifts.
The brake rotors warp due to lack of adequate venting.
Most have vibrations and shimmying that nobody can figure out.
Every time I mention on this site a problem that I am having and can't figure out, half of you have had the same problem and most are still having it and are just learning to live with it.
If you have a SES code, and change the recommended part, it is very rarely the actual cause of the problem.
By design, the cars run at 200 degrees causing shortened life of transmission fluid and the transmission itslef.

If I had a freind considering one of these cars, I would not be a good friend if I didn't mention all of these problems. I would also have to mention that if there are no accurate service records that he would immediately need to change the intake manifold gaskets and flush and change the coolant. If it had a sunroof, I would have to let him know that it probably leaks and probably has clogged drain hoses and will probably eventually cause corrosion to the stupid ground busses in the floorboard. I would feel it necessary to tell him that all the interior lighting comes from LED bulbs that are difficult if not impossible to replace as a DIY project.

With all of this in mind, would you feel comfortable recommending one of these cars to a friend of yours? If you did, would you feel responsible if they started having all of the "normal" problems with their car that we have all had with ours?

If it was someone with very limited mechanical experience, would still recommend one of these cars?

After considering all of these things, I told my friend that these cars are pretty high maintenance and that they are great when everything is working like it's supposed to, but unless they enjoy working on cars, it's not the car for them.

I hated it, but I had to be honest since this is a freind that I see quite regularly and I don't want to have to hide from this person if (or when) they start expereiencing the problems tha I know they will have.

Just a thought for you folks. We drive some machines that - if we are honest - we have a love/hate relationship with.

What are your thoughts?

I would recommend one, but I would also mention that at best these cars are 7 years old now. Most Bonnevilles out there now are living way beyond what they were engineered to do. In that same breath, any car out there is going to start having problems once they get a few years and a few miles on them, I've owned plenty of solid cars in the past but they've all needed some kind of work. IMO, once you get past the few issues with these cars, they're some of the best out there.

I have a wife and 3 sons that are all driving age. Our "fleet" includes quite a few older cars.

1997 Grand Caravan. I have only done standard maintenance other than replacing the wiper motor and a transmission rebuild at 100,000 (it's our third Chrysler van and I have had to rebuild transmission on all of them around 100,000) The van now has 312,000 miles on it and other than these things, only standard maintenance has been done.

1995 Honda Civic. Ran hot once and had to replace the head gasket. Over 150,000 miles and no problems other than standard maintenance.

1999 Ford Ranger. Other than replacing the starter, standard maintenance only. It eats up front tires due to a 3" lift, but other than that, standard maintenance is all the attention it gets.

1987 Chevy pick up. It has wide tires and wears out Idler arms, I replaced the transmission at 200,000 miles due to a little slipping problem at take-off. Truck has 350,000 miles and has never let me down. I have replaced the fuel pump and one window regulator. oh and a water pump just last month.

1997 Jetta. Very "unusual" car, to say the least! It's had problems with door hinges and seat adjusters and we have replaced the fuel pump. Other than that and the need to take it to the dealership to get the transmission fluid changed (no dipstick!), it's been a good car.

My Bonneville has offered a lot of good quality "guy time" with my sons when they help me work in it and try to figure out the strang non-standard problems that it always seems to have, and I appreciate that! We have all learned a lot about sensors, leveling systems, brakes, Interiors (several times taking the headliner out to unclog drain lines and replace the sunroof motor) wiring from repairing the coroded ground busses fron the cloged drain lines, and we've all become pretty good with a soldering iron from replacing burned out interior LED's.

These cars are pretty hard to defend or recommend in my opinion.
Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings about their car. Maybe I'm just getting too old to enjoy working on my car like I used to.

Unless someone is looking for an older car, I would probably not recommend. Unless they can find a gem. I would probably also recommend an SE for the older cars because there is far less to go wrong with them. The 3800 is a wonderful engine and it will keep running for a looooong time, but unfortunately there are many other things that tend to go wrong first.

ga93sle wrote:I would recommend one, but I would also mention that at best these cars are 7 years old now. Most Bonnevilles out there now are living way beyond what they were engineered to do. In that same breath, any car out there is going to start having problems once they get a few years and a few miles on them, I've owned plenty of solid cars in the past but they've all needed some kind of work. IMO, once you get past the few issues with these cars, they're some of the best out there.

Gotta say,

SSEiMan01 wrote:

ga93sle wrote:I would recommend one, but I would also mention that at best these cars are 7 years old now. Most Bonnevilles out there now are living way beyond what they were engineered to do. In that same breath, any car out there is going to start having problems once they get a few years and a few miles on them, I've owned plenty of solid cars in the past but they've all needed some kind of work. IMO, once you get past the few issues with these cars, they're some of the best out there.

Gotta say,

X3 - BC

I tend to agree with the OP.... if you enjoy working on cars and don't mind constantly tending to some little issue or other, bonnevilles are great cars. But most people that ask me what kinds of cars they should be looking at don't do their own work, and I can't in good faith recommend a bonneville to them. of course I love owning them myself though! probably would never be interested in a 00+ though.

If someone is looking for a car and doesn't want to do any work on it, I personally wouldn't recommend any car that is out of warranty.

But really, a solid 92-99? Don't beat the tranny, and replace the LIM/UIM on the 95-99... it'll rust to pieces before it stops moving for the most part.

I think I've been lucky with my 20 year old SSEI.

Oldman wrote:The transmission has known issues with hard shifts.
The brake rotors warp due to lack of adequate venting.
Most have vibrations and shimmying that nobody can figure out.

My experiences...

I don't know if the '92-'99 models are better, but I have have no problems with the transmission, other than that I find it a little unresponsive at times, and that takes the edge off performance... but I think they're all like that.

brake rotors/discs, I have had no problem with.

No vibrations, shimmying, shakes, or rattles.

Every time I mention on this site a problem that I am having and can't figure out, half of you have had the same problem and most are still having it and are just learning to live with it.

That's old cars for you. And that's web forums for you.

The only problems I am living with are due to odd, intermittant electrical gremlins, which are by nature a nightmare to trace and not worth the hassle and expense. The air-con also doesn't work due to a currently un-diagnosed electrical fault.

If you have a SES code, and change the recommended part, it is very rarely the actual cause of the problem.

This is down to the law of Sod/Murphy. I've encountered this with other cars. I've yet to see any worrying warning lights on my Bonneville.

Electrical niggles aside, my Bonneville has proved itself to be very reliable, and well made. One of the best cars I've owned in terms of dependability, which considering its age, is impressive.

I also find it nice to drive, spacious, comfortable, and it handles remarkably well for such a big old car.

I would recommend one as an older American car for the enthusiast, that you can use every day over here.

Oldman wrote:These cars are pretty hard to defend or recommend in my opinion.

I can't say I don't understand where you're coming from. Going down to the 2000-2005 section and seeing the glaring thread showcasing all the common issues with the 2000+ at least is enough to put anyone off. However, most are easy fixes, and nothing major. My car never had the highway vibration. I replaced all the radio buttons and bulbs myself along with fixing a door water leak. I don't have a sunroof and luckily the LIM gasket job went well thanks to a good friend. (SSEiMan01) Her gas door rust is now just starting, and the hood herpes is horrible. Looks like gunshot holes from a distance. However, this car from a mechanical standpoint has never failed me nor my father who owned it before me. He was not a gentle driver.. The floor mat still has an imprint from him flooring it all the time. And I'm not much better than him. This car has seen hell with me and it never skipped a beat. In the end, I think it's the motor that makes these cars as mentioned. The only reason I would recommend one of these to a friend is because I'd willingly help with all the problems. They're awesome cars and underrated. The problem is most of them ended up in the hands of people who didn't care about them. Thus whatever ones you find on sale now are usually dying of serious neglect. Just my two cents.

I felt this way about my 2001 Aurora, which shares a lot in common with the 2000+ Bonnevilles. To quote a good friend an mechanic when discussing the G platform cars "Run away". They are technological dream boats with some of the most creative lines, features, and packaging of an American cars of the era. Even today the Bonnevilles and Auroras look good next to brand new cars.

The problem is they are best left to enthusiasts who are aware of what these cars need. They offer luxury and refinement similar to cars that cost twice the money but when they break.....you need a second income.

The worst part is that on these cars, many of the issues are unavoidable due to design faults and GM quality issues.
Ohhh boy...now I'm reliving my days of Aurora ownership....what a nightmare.

I'd recommend one over an Impala, that's for sure.

I've never had anything major go wrong with my 88,93 or 2000 conventionally aspirated Bonnevilles, a trans solenoid was the biggest repair. ($600 IIRC)

DrOlds88 wrote:The problem is they are best left to enthusiasts who are aware of what these cars need. They offer luxury and refinement similar to cars that cost twice the money but when they break.....you need a second income.

Back that up a little bit. Similar repairs on cars that cost twice the money will cost twice the money.

J Wikoff wrote:

DrOlds88 wrote:The problem is they are best left to enthusiasts who are aware of what these cars need. They offer luxury and refinement similar to cars that cost twice the money but when they break.....you need a second income.

Back that up a little bit. Similar repairs on cars that cost twice the money will cost twice the money.

These cars do offer a level of luxury that is similar to much more expensive vehicles. My Aurora for example was very similar to the Cadillac Seville in ride comfort, features, and style (they didn't look alike but both cars were stylish..well done designs).

The repairs however are very costly. My Aurora needed new rear shocks for example, which were quoted by the dealership at over $1,000. It had a bad input turbine sensor on the transmission that cost $1,544 to repair after having several shops flat out refuse to "open up" that model transmission. My local GM dealership did it after a rather awkward moment....as I walked into the shop I noticed a black Aurora on the lift. I said "Nice Aurora" which resulted in the service writer telling me to avoid them due to their reputation as a money pit.....then I told him I was there to drop off the silver one outside!

Everything on my G body was expensive because it was higher end stuff from GM. To change the plugs, coolant, and oil cost me over $500 ($14 per spark plug...ouch GM..and I checked online to verify the price...it was right!).

I wish I still had my repair records for that car but I gave them to the guy who bought it from me. In 19,000 I put almost $4,000 into that car. I thought mine was a lemon until I started talking to other owners who reported similar issues. A guy around the corner from me has replaced his rear power window motors twice (2001 Aurora), a man I met one day at a fast food restaurant with an Aurora told me how his car had cost more in repairs than he paid for it used...ouch.

My quote doesn't say G body cars are more expensive to repair than cars that cost more...but I bet they cost nearly as much!

Not trying to pick on anybody here.

Back it up just a little bit more... Most of the issues I've been seeing are simple DIY fixes/regular maintenance items, across the H-body line, that don't require a $1500 mechanics bill. I get it, who has the time to maintain a vehicle? It's frustrating when things break... I realized, the things I was spending my time on (video games, movies, tv,) were getting me nowhere. So I quit the games, limited entertainment to weekends, and look what I did last year with a 26 year old "granny car"! People complain too much about how much it costs to have other people do things for them. There are places like RockAuto that can supply you with competitive prices on new parts, and junkyards for those of us who are even more stingy.

Anybody who can't turn a wrench or doesn't want to learn, I say let them buy foreign and trash those cars. How much time and effort does it take to replace the light bulbs in the radio? How much time does it take to inspect the suspension for a vibration or shimmy? How much can you learn and save if you take the time to understand something you rely on every day to do it's job without fail for 5, 10, or even 26 years?

What else do you own that works everyday, rain or shine or snow, for 15 years straight, and continues to do so reliably without an ounce of effort put into maintaining it? A 1975 Maytag dryer?

Out of curiosity, what spark plugs cost $14 each that lasted under 19,000 miles? Because the Iridium plugs in my parents '02 yukon 8100 lasted 250,000 miles, and they can be had for $6 a pop. How long does coolant last? The coolant in said '02 had 240,000 miles, before the heater core started leaking (hose connector cracked). And my last synthetic oil change cost me $30. Sounds like your local dealer is running quite the racket...

I copy Mattstrikes comments. That said, it all depends on who's is asking.

And THAT being said, if there was a good deal on a 99 SSEi, I would probably try to snatch it up.

I was just reminded of one big, expensive flaw........the window regulator/motor units are junk and I've replaced more than I care to add up !!

Oh yeah......and water leaks in abundance! (I just discovered my compact spare drowning in water 2" deep under the trunk floor panel !)

Arrowhead wrote:I was just reminded of one big, expensive flaw........the window regulator/motor units are junk and I've replaced more than I care to add up !!

There's a fix for that in the TECHINFO section

If someone doesn't do (or want to do) work on their own car, I absolutely would not recommend a Bonneville. Especially a 2000+, there are WAY too many common issues that plague this generation that aren't problems on most other cars, regardless of make. 1992-1999 is a possible recommendation, however these cars are starting to be dogged with problems related to age and rust.

Those who can wrench and fix stuff themselves might enjoy a Bonneville, especially those of the more exotic (SSEi/GXP) variety.