How snow tires make a change....

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

Today while going to work, I was shown yet again how much of a difference snow tires make. There's a very steep hill heading into work that was covered in loose snow today. Right before I jumped onto the gas to have speed for going up, a car turns up it going slowly. By the time I'm near, the car is about stopped, spinning its tires in the snow. My Buick with snow tires spun a little, and made it up to work. That other person pulled into the parking lot 10 minutes behind me. The hill is roughly 3/4 mile long. That's the difference snow tires make.

[Sadden]

X2 in Canadia.
Most people give up on their all seasons after a season or two and switch to dedicated summer/winter sets (around here)
Yesterday i saw 12 or 13 semis spun out all on the same hill. Our truck kept going no issues..

[repinS]

Street view: http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF ... 18,,0,9.91

I was on my way home today when some doofus in a Sunfire decides to cut in front of me just as traffic is stopping. I had to hit the brakes HARD so I wouldn't eat his rear end. The roads were damp and the Generals bit and tickled the ABS ever so slightly.

I'd have been a goner if I had my rock hard all seasons on!

[lash]

I know, I know...I live in Florida, so what do I know?

But seriously, when I lived in Michigan, I sprang for dedicated snow tires on my wife's POS Toyo Tercel. Prior to that, it was like trying to control a flying saucer (you know, those round metal dics we rode on down snowy hills when we were kids). After buying dedicated snow tires, I felt comfortable that she would not be one of those knuckleheads stuck on the shoulder of the road when there was a little snow.

[olblueeyesbonne]

I just put the Bridgestone Blizzaks on the original rims from the 97 SSEi and mounted the fronts on the GTP Special Edition last night. I still have the 18" Akuza's with GY Eagle F1 Supercar 255/45/18's on the rear. Talk about having to learn how to drift .... FAST!
Before I got the fronts on the car was absolutely uncontrollable on snow/ice. I couldn't stop, I couldn't start, I couldn't turn. Now my problem is stopping and turning.... worse yet is braking while turning.
The last two turns had me thanking my lucky stars there were no cars waiting to make left turns or their left headlight would have been in my lr quarter panel, and these turns were made at a measly 5-8mph. It's like a catapault the way the rear end kicks out so fast with even the slightest tough of the brake pedal.

[00Beast]

Why not have snows on one of the SSEi's? Bigger car, better traction.

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

Reason right there to get 4 snows. The rear end will step out a little less dramatically then tuck in nice and pretty. I had that happen going around an off-camber turn recently atop a snowy hill. Lifting off the gas a touch let the rear end come back in a very controlled manner.

[Sadden]

Lifting off the gas in a FWD car does not make the back end come back into line if its already sliding.

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

I didn't say I lifted completely, just a touch. The snow then pushed the rear tires back inline once the car slowed enough to let the tires grip again. The particular road in question also slopes downhill while turning uphill. Cars like to not make the turn in inclement weather.

That was a case of me over-driving the tires, and them doing their thing once my speed was low enough for them to grip again. I didn't lift completely, so the front wheels still had some grip due to engine power. Reducing my speed in a controlled manner by slightly reducing throttle input helped the car come back.

You are right, lifting completely off of the gas in a FWD car doesn't result in controlling a skid. Much the opposite will happen, in fact.

[PRD2BDF]

We're talking about this in the middle of a heat wave?

lol

[01bonneSC]

We're talking about this in the middle of a heat wave?

lol

Yup, old thread dug up.

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

It sure made me feel cooler talking about snow while sweltering in that heat.

[Sadden]

That was a case of me over-driving the tires, and them doing their thing once my speed was low enough for them to grip again. I didn't lift completely, so the front wheels still had some grip due to engine power. Reducing my speed in a controlled manner by slightly reducing throttle input helped the car come back.

You are right, lifting completely off of the gas in a FWD car doesn't result in controlling a skid. Much the opposite will happen, in fact.

Snowy road conditions can be two completely different things too , Grated , Salted , Calcium , Sand all behave differently under the tires. Most of the time here the roads are like glass , packed down 2-4 inches thick , and letting off the gas midway through and sideways motion will result in you going ass over teakettle before you know whats going on.
Why?
Because as you let off the gas the engine itself creates drag on the front wheels (in a fwd car) this results in your ass trying to go faster than your front on crappy road surfaces. Also aggressive braking can do the same thing due to 70/30 front/rear braking ratio +engine drag.

General rule of thumb in a fwd in inclement weather is during any sideways motion (turning skids or w.e.) is too lightly apply the gas.

Something young drivers learn early up here.

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

This was windblown snow about 2-3" deep over packed snow. We don't get glare ice like you do up there. It's simply not cold enough for long enough for that to form. The salt works pretty well down here since most of the winter is -10 to +4-5*C. Down here in the northeastern US "snow" generally refers to accumulating snow from 2 cm on up to 20 cm. Most snow accumulation is dealt with after about 12 hours by plowing and salting. Occasionally one will have to trek through 8-12 cm on the highways before the plows come out.

[2000Silverbullet]

WTF are you guys talking about driving in the snow?!! If you want cool, come out west. Warm in the winter and cold in the summer.

[BonneMe]

WTF are you guys talking about driving in the snow?!! If you want cool, come out west. Warm in the winter and cold in the summer.

Sadden Necro bumped this thread from December.

[Spitzkindl]

By law we must use winter tires on all vechicles under 3500 kg (7700 lbs) during the period december 1st to February 28th. Winter tires means by law any tire marked M+S, with or without spikes. But even if many tires carry the marking M+S, that doesn't make them real winter tires, so be beware! About 70% here drive with spiked tires.

Very common, and a general rule, is that the winter tires should be a bit narrower than normal. Eg. if the summer/stock tires are 225/60/16, the winter tires should be 215/60/16, or 215/55/16. And lower the tire preassure also a bit. That makes it a bit easier to drive in snow and on ice.

The road to my house is particulary tricky. There is a hill. Not very long, only about 300 feet, but it's steep! The trick is to have enough speed when you start the climb. During the climb you must keep a steady accelerator pressure. Don't try to give more gas - wheels starts to spin, and you won't make it up the hill! Even on flat roads (and with winter tires), when it's more snow than 8-10 inches, it's rather hard to get anywhere (talking loose snow that the car sinks into, under that can be hard show/ice which doesn't count). Unless you have a Jeep Grand Cherokee ... That's why 4-wheel drive cars are very popular here.

Very important, when you go out for a drive in the winter, is to take enough clothing with you! Don't think a warm car means you can go in just your Hawaii shirt. If the car breaks down in a remote spot, and it's -20 F outside, and you have to wait for help 1-2 hours, you are doomed without warm clothes! Not to talk about the -40 F it can be in Northern Finland.

In spite of the long winter (6 months), the most dangerous time to drive here is in late september - early october; shortly before the snow arrives. When nights starts being longer than days, it's just below freezing in the nights, and people jump into their cars in the morning to drive to their work, they don't "remember" about the BLACK ice. The most dangerous one. Black ice is a very thin layer of ice on the road, that looks like there is no ice at all. Those mornings, when people still have their summer tires, you see a lot of cars "parked" by the side of the roads - in the most strange positions.

But people are used to snow and ice here. Imagine driving 65 mph (max in the winter here) on a icy road, when suddently a reindeer jumps in the front of the car. You have 1/100 of a second to decide if you want to hit the reindeer (not a good option), or steer into the ditch (the correct option). Just check there is no tree near the ditch at that spot (according to Mr. Murphy there is always one).

Here is a rather typical Finnish winter road on YouTube (plowed, and only a little snow, an easy drive):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddi6Y9Zt_Cw

[BonneMe]

Definitely go narrower!

My GTI had 225 all season OEM continentals, I ran 205 winter tires, and 245 summers...
The BMW is getting 205 winters as well, and has 255's in the summer.

[00Beast]

I was watching an older Top Gear the other day, and they were in Finland. You guys sure have a rigorous Driver's training.

I understand a Reindeer (caribou) is a huge animal, but is the best option really to steer in the ditch? I've always been taught that it's better to hit it and have a dead animal to show my insurance than flip my car in the ditch and make it look like I lost control and have to pay more in Ins.

I think MN's winters are bad, but at least our snow doesn't *usually* start flying till mid-November...

[Spitzkindl]

I understand a Reindeer (caribou) is a huge animal, but is the best option really to steer in the ditch? I've always been taught that it's better to hit it and have a dead animal to show my insurance than flip my car in the ditch and make it look like I lost control and have to pay more in Ins.

Well ... a reindeer is a small animal compared to a moose (that is rather common in Southern Finland). They say you can hit a reindeer rather "safetly", but ... the problem with a reindeer is that it fits INSIDE thru the windshield. And a 400 lbs animal coming right at you at say 50 mph, is NOT better than the ditch.

The moose again is another problem. It won't fit thru the windshield, but since the weight is 1500 lbs, it can be very bad when it hit the front/roof of the car. Also here I would prefer the ditch. Note! Always try to steer to the side the animal came from (its "back"). These animals will not turn back when they see the car - they continue forward!







This time they where lucky, but people die also.