lololol, have another update

[MattStrike]

Got it. Brain fart.

[yourgrandma]

Dont really have any pictures to show for now but some progress was made this weekend.

Friday, I picked up the shortblock from the engine builder. For those who may need reminding, I had the block honed, rods conditioned, rotating assembly balanced, 9.5:1 Diamond forged pistons fitted and installed and the shortblock assembled.

I must have accidentally given them my oil pan and rear cover bolts because I cant fiind them anywhere.

I installed the cam and timing set today, did some shop cleaning and finished up my delrin intercooler spacer. Also installed the wiring for the wideband O2 sensor/UEGO gauge. I have a couple ideas of where to mount the gauge, but unfortunately Ill probably end up making a simple A pillar mount.

Ive been doing more thinking about my valvetrain and sadly it looks like Ill be spending even more money. The tale of this valvetrain is long and winding.

The short version is that I have three options for rockers. Stock, 1.7 Comp Pro Magnums, or 1.8:1 Yella Terras.

Now, the Pro Magnums would seem like the best bet due to their more moderate ratio, stronger trunion and link bar setup, however when I sent them to Comp for rebuilding, they were at a loss as to what was going on with the link bars. Basically, they are Big Bloc Chevy rockers with some sort of homebrewed axle setup to allow them to mount up to the 3800 heads. All well and good except for the fact that they arent all the same. Im a precision machinist, so I could probably make a better set of these bars, but I dont have the personal or machine time to do so. Ill be making measurements when I get them back...\

The 1.8:1 Yella Terras are an option; even with an S1x cam, lift will be well within what my heads can handle. However, with that amount of lift, one would want 130# springs or better, especially with 6300rpm shiftpoints. This would almost mandate a double roller timing set. I think the double roller setup is a little too jankey for my tastes. For one you have to use two hfront cover gaskets to avoind interferance. You also cannot run a balance shaft. I already reversed my balance shaft bearing to block the oil passage, so Im not running one, but if I end up hating not having it, id like to be able to put one back in.

Theres always the stock rocker option, but i have two paid for roller options and Id rather use one of them. I also have a set of Intense/Comp lightweight pushrods that I want to use and im not sure if they flow enough oil for the stock rockers.

Also on the shopping list is a set of LS7 lifters. The lifters from the L32 donor are just too dirty looking and with the RPMs this engine will be capable of, I may as well go for the 7000rpm capable lifters.

Elsewhere on the car, the steering rack is in, just waiting on new outer tie rod ends. The slop in the column is going to be left alone for the time being. I have a wheel bearing with some slop as well, which is also being put off for now. I had planned to order the Delco struts spec'd for FE5 suspension as well as Eibach lowering springs for an STS but funds are short at the moment. Also I need to rate a set of FE2 springs before I buy the Eibachs.

[harofreak00]

If you aren't using a double roller, what set are you going with?

[00Beast]

Single roller, probably.

[myfirstbonnie]

Did you have the valve guides machined? Using higher ratio rockers cause a problem on the clearance with the valve guide seals. Even on their site, Intense mentions it maxes out the heads

The Stage 1X cam is designed to max out the stock cylinder heads, both in terms of air flow and also with regard to valvespring retainer to valve seal/guide clearance.

Also, for the wideband, here is what I did. I also have the 5v output wired and it hides neatly in the glove box when I am not tuning.

http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... t=wideband

[yourgrandma]

Valve guides are milled, i have milled retainers and viton seals. The heads will support over .600" of valve lift.

I have a stock style timing set right now, which has been used with success with pretty aggressive setups. It almost seems like the roller chain setups are more failure prone. Likely because theyre hacked to fit a 3800.

Edit: With mounting the wideband, I could use the vent, but with the interceptor on the left side, it would annoy the crap out of me to have to look all over the place for info, especially when accelerating with prejudice.

[myfirstbonnie]

What is hacked about them? I have over 20k on my JB single roller and no issues at all. There was an issue in earlier years, but that was a while ago and no new issues have come up.

I would seriously think about using a stock chain and 130# springs.

[yourgrandma]

I was mostly referring to the double roller setups as being sort of cobbled together. Most failures Ive heard of involve the crank gear because apparently they were modified from some other application.

Im planning on getting the JP single roller setup and looking at 125# springs.

In other news, the missing oil pan and rear cover bolts, along with the mount for my engine stand, are still at the shop. So i have to drive out to gt those in the morning.

Speaking of rear covers,Im having a tough time getting the rear main seal in. I put a couple small dents in it so I think im going to buy another one just to be safe. Anyone have any info on how to drive that seal in?

[myfirstbonnie]

Never done one on these, but I do know there are some tools made specifically for aligning the rear cover and installing the seal. The cover bolts have spacers on them that allow it to be moved to align the seal correctly around the crank.

I am sure there are other ways, but here is the seal install tool. It is also set up to set the correct depth in the cover. The latest revisions have a tab in the cover for setting the depth whereas the earlier ones did not.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Kent-Moore-EN-4 ... 0540422341

Here are the cover alignment tools:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/sis.html?_nkw=R ... rankshaft+

I discovered this when thinking about rebuilding mine when I decided to purchase an L32 with 33k on it.

[yourgrandma]

Looks like I have more valvetrain stuff to figure out. Turns out the pushrods I have are an old, weak design. So if I want to use the 1.7's ill need 130# springs, better pushrods, double roller, and ls7 lifters at minimum. When does it end?
Good news is that I'm being told to expect at least 370whp out of this.

[harofreak00]

I had a JP single roller setup that I was planning on using. I had it installed and everything. Since then I've talked to Larz01, and I have learned A LOT. I will not be running the JP. It is junk. I'll give it to you for free if you want it.

I am gonna run a Rollmaster double and I just got home from having both the crank and cam gear machined to perfection.

http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=4752021

http://www.thechicagogarage.com/forum/3 ... -step.html

[00Beast]

First link doesn't work Andrew.

Basically the clearances aren't consistent, so you got it machined so it fits within tolerance?

[yourgrandma]

You know jp and rollmaster are the same, right? What are you referring to when you say its junk? Fits too tight on the crank snout?

[yourgrandma]

From reading that thread I'd think every stock cam, 1.9 setup would blow up in minutes. I guess I need someone to break down what they feel is so inadequite about thes timing sets because I hear 50 different things from everyone. I talked to intense for an hour today and they never seem to have problems with either setup. Gender, I know, blah blah.

The lack of any reliable, consistant information on building these stupid ass engines is driving me insane. All the grand prix kid language calling anything they don't like junk and retarded is getting old. I'm not the first or the 3000th person to put a cam in a 3800. Why does everyone make it seem like I have to re-engineer the whole engine because nobody makes things that fit?

[yourgrandma]

Okay... Would I be correct in stating that the problem with the aftermarket timing sets is that the chamfer on the back side of the crank gear is too small? Simple fix if that's the only issue.

[harofreak00]

Yes exactly. They are designed for the Austie 3800 crank, not ours. When you machine the chamfer larger on the crank gear, you also need to take some off the cam gear to put them in alignment. It is a simple fix. Cost me $75 at a machine shop. Talk to Randy (Larz01) with any questions. He researched everything 2 years before he built up his engine.

here is that link again: http://www.clubgp.com/newforum/tm.asp?m=4752021

[Bing]

Does your rear cover have a stop for the main seal?

When I did mine (07 L26), I heated up the aluminum plate to about 180* and had the seal in the refrigerator. I took the seal out of the refrigerator and I basically just pushed it evenly down with my fingers. I had cut a 3/4" thick piece of pine just slightly smaller than the seal and gently pounded it in until it hit the stop.

When I installed the rear plate on the block I left the plastic seal protector in. As I slide the plate on the crank the plastic protector was pushed out by the crankshaft. Then I threaded in all the rear cover bolts loose and checked the bottom deck for the tolerance. When everything was good I sequentially tightened them down checking to make sure it stayed in place.

This is just what I did and it has seemed to have worked out fine for this long (1yr+) just my 2 cents.

[yourgrandma]

Sorry about the rant. Low blood sugar I think. A simple chamfer will take me 10 minutes to fix. I was thinking there were concentricity issues as well. I'll have to order it up and inspect it closely in comparison to stock.

The rear seal des look like it will take some heat to get in. Thing is tight.

[MattStrike]

For the rear main seal, I had some piece of pcv pipe from a makeshift clutch spring compressor, the old seal, and I made a simple bolt and nut press to draw it through the cover. I read this first.

The seal is tight, but I didn't have to heat mine.

[Bing]

I used the heat to make it that much easier to install.