PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

Sounds right. Sorry, I didn't see your edit before.

okay thanks.
Im just a bit worried because the carbon buildup wren mentioned is not carbony its greasy and grainy.

Yes, assuming you fix all the other crap. Seen the Techinfo lately on S1 pulley swap requirements? Those items are MUST DO's. Porting and polishing guide is on my supercharger page, do NOT enlarge the opening. You MUST replace the needle bearings after porting.

Do you have a link to the supercharger page?

http://www.3800supercharger.net/

Click the porting link at the top. Some of that is incomplete, but I will update it in time.

willwren wrote:You MUST replace the needle bearings after porting.

I assume this is because of metal shavings getting into the bearing? If so, covering the bearings with masking tape durring the port work should eliminate the need to replace the bearings.

As long as you don't lose much grease that stays on the pilot of the rotor then gets cleaned off, or you don't contaminate the grease on the pilots if you don't clean them, then you can leave the needle bearings alone.

Exactly. It's not worth *shoot* a supercharger due to lack of grease, and with the miles on that supercharger, you'd be a fool NOT to replace the bearings anyway. Rule of thumbs:

1. If your supercharger has more than 25000 miles on it and you pull the rotors, don't re-grease (spendy stuff anyway), replace the bearings (from the right source, they come pre-lubed). Cheap insurance.
2. If your supercharger has less than 25000 miles on it and you pull the rotors, just re-grease (with the correct expensive stuff).
3. If you don't know how many miles are on the supercharger, replace the bearings. This should be the last thing you do before assembly.


From the looks of the supercharger in this particular topic, it's obvious those needle bearings should be replaced. It's clearly seen a ton of action and a lack of attention, and is probably on it's originals.

Needle Bearings
http://www.rollingperformance.com/rotorbearings.htm
Rebuild Kit
http://www.rollingperformance.com/snoutkits.htm

Is it worth the money to get the Ceramic Kit?
And if i go with the standard one do i want Nitrile or Viton?

Edit: And for when i am doing the pulley is there any "Hotswap" type kits for this Supercharger?
I know all you M90 boys can get a "QwikChange" kit from pulley boys but is there anything like that available for the Gen3 M62?

There is no commercially available Modular Pulley System for the M62, but that's because you have a keyed shaft, whereas M90's have a press fit, and it's hard to swap from one pulley to another, and much harder on the shaft. M62's just need a 3 jaw puller, only takes 10 minutes, about the same time as swapping a pulley on an M90 MPS. Putting a hub or a press on pulley on an M90 takes 30-45 minutes if you know what you're doing.

Are you honestly going to have that car in 5 or 10 years? Go with standard bearings. They'll last at least that long. I'm spinning my M62 on the Zilla with 2.0" and 2.2" pulleys at over 10,000 rpm's and I'm on steel bearings.

From another topic:

willwren wrote:Viton is a bad idea for most high-mileage M62's. Over time, the original seal will actually wear a groove in the shaft. Viton is less flexible, and takes a LONG time to 'seat' in the grove of the input shaft. Nitrile should be the primary choice of any M62 still on the road. Your chances of leaks are far less, and it will easily outlast your ownership of the car for less money.

Worry less about your pulley size until after the car is fixed. Install the correct supercharger with the correct pulley when you get to that point, and get it running right. Then look at all the other stuff. Scan, check for cracks and fix them (you have them), verify fuel pressure, etc etc etc.

Willwren, don't these blowers have a ceiling anyways? A point at which higher rotor RPM will not produce any more boost?

Not a point where they don't produce boost, but diminshed returns the higher you go due to heat (which reduces the density of the boost charge). There are ways to deal with that though. Flow is a primary concern, and along with that is a clear understanding of what to port, how, and why.

In addition, an intercooler helps a ton. With or without the intercooler, my car actually runs slightly quicker with a 2.0" than it does with the 2.2" (please note this is not a Gen2 SC which had a stock 2.55" pulley, this is a modified Gen3 that started at 2.85"). Done correctly, it's less of a concern on the Series 1, due to the fact that the stock manifolds flow better than Stock S2 manifolds (by quite a bit) and the S1 doesn't rev each gear as high as the S2 does. All in all, there's more 'head room' for flow/boost to begin with in stock form.

The M62 and M90 are both appropriately 'sized' for the 3800 displacement. There are advantages and disadvantages to both in our applications. It's all a matter of what you want.

Without porting (talking about the MOTOR here, not the supercharger) or other flow mods, 2.2" is the safest limit for the Gen2 M62, 2.5" is the same for the Gen3.

willwren wrote:Are you honestly going to have that car in 5 or 10 years? Go with standard bearings. They'll last at least that long. I'm spinning my M62 on the Zilla with 2.0" and 2.2" pulleys at over 10,000 rpm's and I'm on steel bearings.

From another topic:

willwren wrote:Viton is a bad idea for most high-mileage M62's. Over time, the original seal will actually wear a groove in the shaft. Viton is less flexible, and takes a LONG time to 'seat' in the grove of the input shaft. Nitrile should be the primary choice of any M62 still on the road. Your chances of leaks are far less, and it will easily outlast your ownership of the car for less money.

Worry less about your pulley size until after the car is fixed. Install the correct supercharger with the correct pulley when you get to that point, and get it running right. Then look at all the other stuff. Scan, check for cracks and fix them (you have them), verify fuel pressure, etc etc etc.

Well i would like to have the car. I want to redo the interior and put air ride on it.
But that aside i think that answers most of my questions.
I already checked my fuel pressure with dad.
And with the leaks i assume your talking about the exhaust manifolds?
But now i need to get or borrow a pulley puller.
Ill order the rebuild kit and needle bearings next week if all goes to plan.

Also i need to get a scan tool / tuner so that i can give it a tune up. Any recommendations for OBDI ?

My one remaining question is about the buildup in the Compression chamber.
WillWren i believe you said to leave it alone as much as possible. How ever after feeling some of it and dealing with it the stuff feels greasy and Grainy (like it has sand in it). Grease i am not too worried about however being grainy i am worried about further damaging the interior of the casing and the rotors as well as anything else on down the line from the Supercharger.

Yes, your exhaust manifolds are cracked. I can tell you that without looking. Remove them from the car, and have them welded by a shop that KNOWS how to do it without warping/stressing them.

Forget the puller. You have a long road ahead of you before you can even think about swapping. And you have a scantool to buy before that anyway. You should have that already, and you need to get the car running with the right parts before anything performance oriented is considered.

I thought you had to take the pulley off to replace the nose drive bearings?
I know where i can get the manifolds welded.
What scanner would you all recommend?

Make sure they clamp the manifold flange as if it's bolted to the heads. Have them weld cracks on one area of one, then move to the other while the first cools, and back and forth. Keeping the heat as low as possible in each manifold.

Yes, you have to pull the pulley to change the bearings, but I thought you were sending it out? If you send it, they can pull it. If not, you can. Do you have air tools?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Sunpro-A ... veQ5fTools

You'll have to make the 9115 cable you need for a 94/95. Instructions are here:
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/fo ... f=19&t=199

If you have a press available, let me know. I'm working on finishing up some stuff on my supercharger page for nosedrives. Dog got me up at 3am and can't get back to sleep.

Sadden, I fixed/updated a bunch of stuff on www.3800supercharger.net (see Forced Induction section for details). Take a look at the nosedrive rebuild section to get an idea of what's ahead.

I was going to send it out but looking into it i think i am going to do it all.
Yes we have air tools. Not sure how many of them the compressor at home will run though.
I can always go work at the shop.
Yes i also have a press available to use.
Heres hoping that scantool is still there next week.

Thanks i appreciate all the information.

Air tools will help for removing the pulley nut. Do NOT use air tools on the supercharger for porting or polishing until you've got half a dozen Eatons under your belt. Air tools remove too much material too fast unless in practiced hands.

Use a dremel ONLY if you're going to do your own porting/polishing. I clarified that section on the website today. Mistakes in that will cost you another supercharger.