PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

ok disregard my last post then sorry for the confusion

throwing a N* in instead of the 3.8 S/C engine is nothin but downgrading...

the northstar is slow.. and i mean SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! but amazing on the highway when you're passing people

i had/have both and im telling you, you WILL BE disappointed if you chose the N* over the 3.8 s/c



this quote is worth a million bucks..
im talking from experience

try modding a GXP

willwren wrote: And the GXP asks you "What's a mod?".

Run my f*cked Olds LSS with a N*. When you lose you'll understand why the L67 is the way to go.

LS series engine is the only way to go with a V8 in our cars. Of course with the proper trans.

There's hope, it would just take some $$$$.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ytocPEd ... PL&index=9

willwren wrote:The bottom line (getting back on topic like others) is that no, it's not worth it at all. The N* is not a mod-friendly motor, and the on-track performance just isn't what alot of people would expect from a pretty decent-sized V8.

And the GXP asks you "What's a mod?".

Not trying to start anything with you, but isn't it a little hypocritical to make that statement when you yourself chose to modify Series I's exclusively?

Not to mention, the GXP has a couple hundred pounds on a '96-'99, and just over 100lbs on a '00+ SSEi.

Still not worth the time/money by any means IMHO. It would be a sweet swap though.

'96Bonnevillel67 wrote:Not trying to start anything with you, but isn't it a little hypocritical to make that statement when you yourself chose to modify Series I's exclusively?

There are mods out there, but they are hard to find and hard to pay for. I agree with your statement.

His choices really have nothing to do with this.

Well said, his choices have no bearing at all. How is this even hypocritical at all? The Op asked if it was worth it, opinions were given...and some with fact behind it. The Northstar can be modded? Sure...you can mod anything for the right price. You wanna pay far more than you have to for the performance? Go for it...not to mention you won't have near the choices so you'll be stuck modding how you are told to, not saying "I want to use this and this to get to this"....

I can go on and on, the point is...there's really no reason to "stuff" a Northstar. It's that simple. Take the motor, sell it, use the money to buy a new 3800 and modify that, how's that route? Northstars even used are worth a lot...for what reason I do not know (other than complexity).

True, his choices don't have anything to do with this. None of our choices have anything to do with this. It is up to the vehicle owner what is going to be done.

ChilinMichael wrote:Well said, his choices have no bearing at all. How is this even hypocritical at all? The Op asked if it was worth it, opinions were given...and some with fact behind it. The Northstar can be modded? Sure...you can mod anything for the right price. You wanna pay far more than you have to for the performance? Go for it...not to mention you won't have near the choices so you'll be stuck modding how you are told to, not saying "I want to use this and this to get to this"....

I can go on and on, the point is...there's really no reason to "stuff" a Northstar. It's that simple. Take the motor, sell it, use the money to buy a new 3800 and modify that, how's that route? Northstars even used are worth a lot...for what reason I do not know (other than complexity).

J Wikoff wrote:His choices really have nothing to do with this.

Umm... He chose to modify, extensively mind you, a platform with nearly zero aftermarket backing, and is speaking ill of a motor with about the amount of backing and that's not hypocritical? Really?

Did you both completely miss the fact I said it wasn't worth it in the same post?

I'd also like to throw in that (I'm assuming, not for sure on this) from what I understand, the N* in the GXP is basically the old Cadillac SLS motor right? If that's the case, swap STS heads and you now have 300hp/300tq with a much more solid transmission. Especially noting the STS will dust off a low 15/high 14 weighing over 4,100lbs.

Nevermind the heavy 18" wheels and larger brakes that come stock on the GXP.

There are positives if the swap were to be done.

'96Bonnevillel67 wrote: If that's the case, swap STS heads and you now have 300hp/300tq with a much more solid transmission. Especially noting the STS will dust off a low 15/high 14 weighing over 4,100lbs.

Nevermind the heavy 18" wheels and larger brakes that come stock on the GXP.

There are positives if the swap were to be done.

Not many +'s tho, he WOULD be much better off just modding the 38. I ran a 14.9 with just FWI, solid front mount, and a magnaflow cat, and that was with an iffy trans and thats pushing 4000lbs with me in it. The OP would be much better off selling the N* to a caddy owner, getting a junkyard 5.3L, going through it(bearing/gaskets/etc), intake/exhaust, cam, PCM tune. Thatd be pushing a much more lively than N* 350/360HP. Itd sound better as well. Thats what I plan on doing...albeit with a 6.0L, but....

01bonneSC wrote:

'96Bonnevillel67 wrote: If that's the case, swap STS heads and you now have 300hp/300tq with a much more solid transmission. Especially noting the STS will dust off a low 15/high 14 weighing over 4,100lbs.

Nevermind the heavy 18" wheels and larger brakes that come stock on the GXP.

There are positives if the swap were to be done.

Not many +'s tho, he WOULD be much better off just modding the 38. I ran a 14.9 with just FWI, solid front mount, and a magnaflow cat, and that was with an iffy trans and thats pushing 4000lbs with me in it. The OP would be much better off selling the N* to a caddy owner, getting a junkyard 5.3L, going through it(bearing/gaskets/etc), intake/exhaust, cam, PCM tune. Thatd be pushing a much more lively than N* 350/360HP. Itd sound better as well. Thats what I plan on doing...albeit with a 6.0L, but....

And I ran a 14.7 with just an intake. That's not the point. Swapping heads to the STS heads, should run a 14.5ish completely stock in say a '96-'99, seeing as many have hit 14.8's in stock 4,200lb STS's. Add intake and exhaust, maybe a few other small things, and you're looking at low 14's, possibly scratch a high 13 for a couple hundred $$$. Seeing as he has the motor already, it won't cost him much more besides time, and not have to worry that he can drive home because his trans. took a dump.

Off topic, but why would you run at the track with about 150-200lbs extra in your car?

'96Bonnevillel67 wrote:Umm... He chose to modify, extensively mind you, a platform with nearly zero aftermarket backing, and is speaking ill of a motor with about the amount of backing and that's not hypocritical? Really?

Did you both completely miss the fact I said it wasn't worth it in the same post?

Just about everything available for the SII is available for the SI. And again, his choices don't matter for this discussion. There's a GXP owner further up recommending the 3800, FYI. So there's no reason to be contentious about who has what.

ChilinMichael wrote: Northstars even used are worth a lot...for what reason I do not know (other than complexity).

Because there are always people looking for a replacement engine when their Northstars take a dump.
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J Wikoff wrote:

'96Bonnevillel67 wrote:Umm... He chose to modify, extensively mind you, a platform with nearly zero aftermarket backing, and is speaking ill of a motor with about the amount of backing and that's not hypocritical? Really?

Did you both completely miss the fact I said it wasn't worth it in the same post?

Just about everything available for the SII is available for the SI. And again, his choices don't matter for this discussion. There's a GXP owner further up recommending the 3800, FYI. So there's no reason to be contentious about who has what.

John is correct. Every single mod for a S2 is available for a S1 in the aftermarket with the exception of an intercooler, and what part of me modifying a S1 has anything to do with the lack of an aftermarket for a N*? And did you know (this might shock you) that I didn't SWAP the motor in there. I started with what actually came in the car. Isn't this topic about SWAPPING?

Get back on topic and start a new topic if you want to take shots at me. This topic isn't yours. I'll even explain where you can get every single one of those S1 parts we're talking about. It's no big seccret.


I think the key point made so far in this topic is from the member that has owned both the N* and the L67 (I have also owned a N*, and driven more L67's than just about anyone here). It's not a worthy swap for too many reasons.

I do agree... I have driven and worked on a battery of Northstars.... When they have issues its $$$$ to repair and a massive PITA to work on.. as well as being expensive... I don't even bother with them anymore, I'd rather put a water pump in a Quad 4...

For all intent purposes I would highly recommend staying with the 3800...

after reading the first post yet again....

Ok so it seems the guy has a 2002 SSEi and its by all rights fine.. If this is the case I would say stick with what you have... You'll be happier in the long run...

Now if the L67 threw a rod threw the block and the New or almost new N* was just sitting there complete with a 4T80E, PCM and wiring harness as well as axles( for free or very little cost ) then I would say why not, if you ever wanted to swap back to a 3800 you would still have all of the parts to do so.. And a nice V8 Grumble to boot..


Now my personal opinion is that the N* is not a bad motor, I just hate working on them and dealing with the issues that they will have... And affordable mods are few and far between..

The 3800 is far easier to deal with hence the reason i would stay and recommend that he stay 3800..

Now he can swap if he wants to, I wouldn't stop him... I would have a GXP even tho I am not really a fan of the N* simply because I like the GXP... But when the 4.6 went belly up it would be LS4 or 3800 SC swap time...

Those are my opinions

I'm with don. The northstar is a decent motor for what it is, but don't swap it in place for a perfectly good 3800 S/C.

LeSabreUltra wrote:

ChilinMichael wrote: Northstars even used are worth a lot...for what reason I do not know (other than complexity).

Because there are always people looking for a replacement engine when their Northstars take a dump.
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Exactly... There is not much to repair on a N* when they go bad. the only option is a new one. I have been running a N* for several years now (IN a larger vehicle, true) and the mileage is worse and your quickness will suffer.

'96Bonnevillel67 wrote:Swapping heads to the STS heads

Err...I'm pretty sure the two variants (300/295 vs 275/300) are computer related, not physical. It's like a Mark 8 with the Intech, it's been tuned over the years to have different performance numbers/levels..but all boils down to the chip.

This is off topic but not at the same time. If the OP decides to do a N* conversion, at least he'll know he can tune it to some small degree...

I've searched and searched and every single thing I read backs what I thought, there's no head difference, just a tune. Improvements over the years included refining the intake, tune, etc.