PontiacBonnevilleClub.com

Allmachtige wrote:99ssei you haven't gotten into MAF tuning yet have you?

Yes, that is where I'm at right now.

Still having KR this morning. Aaron, I'll send you the .csv if you'd be so kind

What timing are you commanding in those cells?

It's always in that same rpm range too. There are multiple occasions where the STFT is -4.7 during WOT...they are supposed to hold at 0 since the PCM does not make on the fly adjustments while in PE mode. I noticed it before in earlier scans but it's showing up more now. There are also times when the O2s are switching from rich to lean while at full throttle. I'm starting to think that the PCM may be *fook*.

The KR doesn't even appear consistently...at times it ramps up with the manifold pressure and engine speed like you would expect, then a few minutes later you'll be KR free under similar conditions. Early in the scan you get KR like clockwork anytime you start pushing 5psi or so, but then later about 15:30min into the scan you're running KR free at full boost and 18* timing for several seconds, then the KR comes from nowhere and the O2 values go to *shoot* and you wisely let off the throttle.

The same thing happens again ~17min in, though this time you can clearly see the correlation between the decreasing O2 numbers and the gradual increase in KR...though it is minimal and you're running at engine speeds outside of that KR prone range.

At 18min you're still under similar conditions but in that ~3-4krpm area that the major KR seems to occur at, and this time KR starts at low boost and continues until you let off the throttle...but the O2s are fine and you only briefly see high KR values. At 19:45, same exact situation that you can see at the previous 18min area, but this time you very rapidly shoot up to 6 counts of KR and stay there until you let off.

At 22:40 you get a KR spike at part throttle, but the KR you see while at full throttle is just left over from the previous spike as it decays, then the O2s fall apart as the pcm switches from rich to lean and the KR spikes again.

Edit: The last two WOT runs in that scan are what things should look like. Minimal KR, good O2s, no weird crap going on. I can't make any sense of what's wrong with the other runs, but it doesn't look like it's a tuning issue.

Dirthead, timing advance is the stock 16-18 degrees.

:sad5:

Here's the High and Low Octane table.


What should I do?

superchargedSSEi wrote:I'm starting to think that the PCM may be *fook*.

Are these the usually symptoms? I've never heard of PCM's going bad on these cars.

No clue, but it's doing things that it shouldn't be doing. This is the first time I've seen scans where the STFT is not locked in at 0 while at full throttle, and there are several times in that last scan of his where the O2s go from 920mV down to 500mV or so, one time it even dropped to 100mV while he should have been in PE mode. With the way the tune is set up now the O2s should be 920-950mV, and they are for the most part. I would have guessed that the O2 sensor was acting up if it was just erratic values, but the STFT should stay locked in at 0 regardless of what the sensor does.

Edit: When I get back home tonight I'll see if I can post some frames from the scan to show what I'm talking about.

My PCM is from INTENSE. The OE PCM was sent back to them for a core.
What's the next step here? What should I look for? What do we test next? I'll have more data tonight from my drive home.
Wish I could post the .csv file here for all to view.

Places like scan depot etc are good. Then link it here.

Tonight when I get home I'm going to sit down and compare all of the scans I have from you. We'll get this straightened out one way or another. I'll grab some of the frames from the latest scan too and post them up here...plain numbers can explain what's going on far better than my explanations.

BillBoost37 wrote:Places like scan depot etc are good. Then link it here.

scandepot is limited to 1 Meg or less. My last .csv is 1.9 M

Split it then silly

Need to see a scan if you'd like input.

Cheers,

I'm stuck in a computer lab tonight so I'm not able to do much.

http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=5353 part 1
http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=5354 part 2

This is the scan that Ken sent me this morning that had me scratching my head. Hoping you can shed some light on what's going on Foghorn, I've never my car or any of the others I've looked at act so erratic (actually they've been pretty well behaved numbers wise). Usually if there's a problem it's shown up like clockwork, and the amount of KR has stayed fairly consistent.

Edit:
Just some background: Commanded AFR is at 11.5:1, down from the previous 12:1 since the O2s dropped to ~900mV once the LTFTs got in line. Timing is stock. I don't think any of the PE vs. rpm vs. time, spark correction or any similar correction tables have been touched.

New scan received tonight:
http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=5355 part 1
http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=5356 part 2
http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=5357 part 3

Very briefly went through it since I'm tied up tonight. KR is much higher than in previous scans, though the O2s look fine in the sections I glanced at. Definitely not prettiest numbers I've seen come from the car.

Hmmm...there's a lot of extraneous rows in those scans, there were less than 700 rows of useful data in the first scan.

Interesting...nothing too unusual there...

I'd like to see 2 things:

1) I good photograph of all the spark plugs (numbered)

2) The bin file currently in use

There should be a few easy tweaks to be had.

Just as an aside, do we know what happens to the timing once you command 11.7 AFR or richer?

Cheers,

Yeah, there's a lot of clutter in those isn't there. Most of the data is just from cruise conditions.

Per the PE related tables I've seen the timing is set to advance by 3 degrees at that point...which could be causing problems. On previous scans things didn't look too bad though, it's only been during these last two that the KR became excessive. Weather could have been ideal during those though.

99ssei wrote:Found the hose going to the EVAP canister was cracked. (is that connected to the EVAP solenoid?) Tried local parts store for the hose and they don't carry formed hose.

Maybe I missed it, but did you ever fix this vacuum leak?

agrazela wrote:Maybe I missed it, but did you ever fix this vacuum leak?

Yes, I used a lot of electrical tape to make a good seal. Matter of fact, I went to the dealership last night and ordered all the form fitted hoses and metal hose (taped up like hell where it's starting to rust) for the EVAP system. EVAP canister also on order. When car is hot (80+ degree day) and been running for an hour, I get this fuel smell inside and outside the cabin. I thought it might have been my new A/C, but since I've had EVAP codes come up, I think the filter in the canister isn't working or something.

Foghorn wrote:Hmmm...there's a lot of extraneous rows in those scans, there were less than 700 rows of useful data in the first scan.

Interesting...nothing too unusual there...

I'd like to see 2 things:

1) I good photograph of all the spark plugs (numbered)

2) The bin file currently in use

There should be a few easy tweaks to be had.

Just as an aside, do we know what happens to the timing once you command 11.7 AFR or richer?

Cheers,

1) Unfortunately, I'm at work and I'm working 2nd job after work tonight until 1 am. THEN, if it's not raining (predicted so) drive out to Byron to run it with other guys I know. Track opens at 10 and I'm an hour away. THEN, I work Saturday @ 2 pm until 1 am. I will try to get a picture of the plugs as soon as I can (looking more like Sunday).

2) I can send you the latest .bin. PM me with email address.

Scan from this morning (pt. 1 & 2)
http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=5358
http://www.scandepot.net/viewscan.php?pk=5359

Here is the PE vs. RPM vs. Time table:

Which button/tabs is this table located?

Also are you planning on the track Saturday or Sunday? PM me.

Allmachtige wrote:Which button/tabs is this table located?

Also are you planning on the track Saturday or Sunday? PM me.

The last table I posted in HPT is under:
"Engine"
"Fuel Control"
"Power Enrichment"
"Add vs. RPM"

EDIT: Weather.com is calling for rain/showers/thunderstorms through Sunday. Probably not going :-(