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I checked the key, it seems to be working fine. Because the security light comes on for a few seconds when u first turn the key and then goes out (what it normally does). I noticed now though when I turn the key, the gauges don't sweep they just move into position and sit there.

I tried to remove the ignition switch but I couldn't figure out how to get it out of the dash? Anyway to test it or just have to swap a new one and see if it helps?

Then tried to remove the seats only to find the bolts had turned to complete rust and look like some kind of flower pattern. Tried a T45, it was too small, tried a T50, it would not seat and almost stripped the head. The one was so rusted, I thought it might be a hex.

Can anyone give me a definite what the seat mounting bolts are SUPPOSED to be?

Can't get the seats out so can't look under the carpet.

94SilverSSEi wrote:I checked the key, it seems to be working fine. Because the security light comes on for a few seconds when u first turn the key and then goes out (what it normally does). I noticed now though when I turn the key, the gauges don't sweep they just move into position and sit there.

I tried to remove the ignition switch but I couldn't figure out how to get it out of the dash? Anyway to test it or just have to swap a new one and see if it helps?

Then tried to remove the seats only to find the bolts had turned to complete rust and look like some kind of flower pattern. Tried a T45, it was too small, tried a T50, it would not seat and almost stripped the head. The one was so rusted, I thought it might be a hex.

Can anyone give me a definite what the seat mounting bolts are SUPPOSED to be?

Can't get the seats out so can't look under the carpet.

If you are talking about checking the ground, you do not need to take the seats out to do that. Just pop the bench seat off the back by giving the front of it a upward jerk.

No, the ground is fine. I was talking about checking wiring under the carpet as I can see I a bunch of water just from pulling the edge up.

But can't get the seat bolts out.

Do a search, IIRC you have to pull the Head Unit out to release the Ignition Switch from the dash, shouldn't be too bad. I don't know about a bench test however.

I pulled the radio but it seems like its really wedged in there. (The ignition that is).

Dick had pretty detailed instructions posted in a thread somewhere on here. I'll see if I can find it when I get home. Should come up in search though.

Thanks Will,

Found it. Looks pretty easy once you know the procedure. Like most things

Aye, well I checked. Ignition seems to be working because when I turn the key I can hear a clicking noise coming from the backseat. When the key is moved to the run position.

Checked grounds under backseat they were fine no corrosion. Checked all the fuses and they were fine. There were some jumper wires hooked up to the fuse that said ignition 1. Removed them and tried it, nothing.

About ready to just turn this car into a fireball!!

If you decide to dump it I got dibs.

Trinity wrote:If you decide to dump it I got dibs.

I've got too much in it. Noone would prolly give me enough to break even

I know it's some stupid simple thing, but I can't figure it out.


Can anyone confirm if the seat bolts are T50? Or how do I get them out, they are super rusted.

T45 and WD-40 and use a rachet with a lil bar

There's one thing I learned from owning a 00+ and working on so many others. It's always something stupidly simple that fixes the issue.

Yes, but it takes 3 months and checking 100 things before you find the stupidly simple problem.

Your battery can test 12V and still be bad. It should test at least 13.5 volts with a full charge. Snatch it out and take it to a parts store that can do a load test on it. I had a battery that gave me fits for 4 months that tested 13V but wouldn't pass a load test. Replaced the battery and everything is a-ok now. - BC

@oldman: if the battery was crapping out wouldn't I at least get a click out of the starter? It seems to be doing nothing at all.

Well, when the key is turned you can hear it clicking in fuse box, back seat. So I think ignition switch is fine.

Swapped PCMs with my other car. No luck.

So it has to be something electrical.

Any thoughts?

Well here's a condensed list of everything and the order of things that have been done.


1.) Battery - good
2.) Starter – good – tried 3 starters, none did anything 2 were known to be good
4.) Corrosion on Cables – checked they were fine
5.) Power is getting to the starter, weird thing is, power is going to both the wires on the starter while key is OFF, is this normal?
6.) Power to car- yes, everything seems to work aside from starter. But I can hear clicking from fuse box when the key is turned to run- I even checked the jumper terminal under the hood and it is receiving sufficient voltage

7.) Security
a.) Security light acts as it normally should
b.) Key- checked- works fine
c.) Ignition switch- seems to be working as it clicks in the back seat when turn to run

8.) Possible PCM problem- swapped with a known good pcm- no change



9.) Grounds- have yet to check, where to find these?

Now I know there is a ground from top of engine harness to side of block/head area and there is also a ground to the bottom of the engine block. What other grounds do I need to be checking that would affect the starter?

It is very possible you have a bad starter relay. Try swapping relays to see if that is the case. You should not have power to purple wire at the solenoid with the key in the off position.

Checked and clean all the grounds. Did nothing.

Cleaned battery cables. Did nothing.

Then i get a new problem, the security light stays on when key is turned on.

So I swapped the complete ignition switch and tumbler with another car. So I have a key, ignition switch and tumbler that were all working fine before.

Still won't start. Tried to do a security relearn but the security light never goes out after 10 minutes.

On the dash it says service theft system.

Please help

Now its saying service theft system AND "starting disable-Theft"

Tried running the 30 minute relearn procedure but after the light goes out the first time, when I turn the key back on, to do the second round of the relearn procedure it says "Starting Diasable-Theft"