Getting used engine and tranny, what to do?

[EWC88]

Hey everyone I'm replacing my engine adn tranny with a used one with 38k on it from Ed. Now its the same engine I have now (non s/c ) just with less mileage. I want to do a little modding to this right away. I was thinking of putting new plugs and wires on it, shift kit, and a FWI. Is there any other mods or things you think I should do to it right away to help everything out? Do you think I need to change the LIM/UIM and everything? I'm going have my guy whos putting it in use all makes all models coolant.

[agrazela]

This for the 01 SE in your sig? What's your budget? Do you have (or know someone with) a tuner? Or would you be willing to get a vendor PCM? How far you willing to tear into it?

P.S., what year/make/model are the engine and transmission from?
(I ask because of potential compatibility issues, especially with the trans)

Shift kit (which one are you looking at?) and FWI are good ideas.

Aluminum LIM gaskets are a no brainer no matter what.
Also, sleeve EGR hole in UIM or use APN kit (or block off TB coolant ports at LIM and/or go to an aluminum L26 UIM)

You should separate the replacement engine from trans and make sure the engine's rear cover is secure. I would go so far as to say plan on replacing the rear cover gasket and main seal and use loctite on the bolts. If you don't it will leak...it's only a matter of time.

If the trans is pre-2003, I would strongly suggest you swap in a 2003+ hardened fourth (overdrive) clutch hub.
(And might want to pop in a Borg Warner improved PCS solenoid if you do open the trans)

As to performance mods:
(Easy mods, and do not necessarily need tuning:)

• Port LIM; DIY
  Port front exhaust manifold, aka PEM; DIY or have one welded/ported
  2.5" downpipe
  Modded rockers

(Fairly easy mods, but tuning required:)

• L67 TB (stock, or better yet DIY ported...or a vendor-modded TB)
  PLOG, instead of PEM
  Hi-flow cat

(More difficult, though much easier with powertrain out of car; also tuning required:)

• Deck heads for higher compression (may require shorter pushrods)
  Cam, instead of modded rockers (and new timing chain; also may necessitate shorter pushrods, especially if heads decked)
  Headers, instead of PLOG or PEM and/or DP
  Diffy change for 3.29 gearing

[EWC88]

Just emailed them back to see what year/make/model this is coming from. He did inform me that it did have Dex in it so I will have to replace the LIM/UIM.

Also what is a sleeve EGR hole in UIM?

[EWC88]

Wow what a fast reply they give!

This is what it is coming out of: 01 GT Special edition, also do you think I should go with the GTP radiator (thicker and cools better than the SE/GT ones ) for 50 bucks extra?

[agrazela]

This is to go into your 2001 Bonneville SE?

The 2001 Grand Prix GT trans has 3.29 gearing and a higher stall TC...good things for performance if you have access to a tuner (or get a vendor PCM).

The problem you will have is that the 2001 Bonne is setup for an IMS (internal mode switch) trans, whereas the 2001 GPGT is a an external PNP (park neutral position) switch trans. It is easy to mod an IMS trans to run in a PNP-ready car (you just slap an external PNP switch on it), but more difficult to go the other way (as you would have to do).

To use that trans you will have to either:
1) Transfer some internal parts (primarily wiring and switch) from your old trans over to it, or
2) Hack up the harness in your Bonne (and I'm not yet 100% certain how to make this option work).

I'm assuming you want to more or less drop the trans in. I would advise you save yourself some trouble and ask Morad to sub in an IMS trans.

There are gearing and stall issues still to deal with; will you be tuning or do you need to match your current gearing and stall?

[BillBoost37]

Pick up an oil pressure kit from Intense-Racing. In the long run it will help your engine and bearings last much longer.

Ensure you take care of that rear engine cover. It is a common seeping area and can only be taken care of with the engine and trans apart.

On the trans.. in your car there are three bolts that hold a motor mount to the trans, please have the donor trans case checked for the three holes. A few have tried to use a GP trans with only one bolt location and broken the trans casing. Additionally as AGrazela mentions your pcm will need to be modified for the different gear ratio and the pnp internal vs external will be an issue to contend with.

[EWC88]

Well I emailed him back and he thought I had a 01 Grand Prix. So I corrected with the right information and hopefully they'll be able to have something for me.


Quesiton with the rear engine cover, how would I be able to make sure that doesn't leak? put some type of lube to lock the bolt threads into it? And were can I get the rear cover gasket and main seal?

[EWC88]

Just thought of another question, when you say vendor PCM what do you mean by that and were would you get that?

[BillBoost37]

I've gotten a lot of gaskets and seals for a great price by picking up the "Lower conversion set" at the local parts stores. Fel Pro packs them up with the front and rear cover, front and rear mains, oil pan, pick up tube, water pump etc gaskets.

As for a vendor PCM, Intense-Racing is a great choice as they will discuss your mods, options and work all those changes into your pcm.

[EWC88]

Ok he asked me if I could ask my mechanic if a 03 Bonne with the FQ3 RPO code will work..so I figure I asked here first, any thoughts?

[BillBoost37]

2003 to my knowledge was an oddball year on how the trans was controlled. You might need your pcm updated by buying an 03 pcm and having the remainder of your 01 information programmed into it.

We need you to check your RPO codes to see what you currently have. FQ3 IIRC is 3.05 ratio.

[EWC88]

Ok is my RPO code located on the spare tire cover?

[EWC88]

Ok question would a 03 LeSabre transmission work on my 01 Se?

[willwren]

Moved to the mechanical section so we can sort out the compatibilities.

We'll handle your performance questions later in a seperate topic.

[EWC88]

Thanks for moving it there, I didn't even put it in performance it was moved there from General.

[agrazela]

Ok question would a 03 LeSabre transmission work on my 01 Se?

Both 2001 and 2003 H-Body trans will be IMS-based; however, there are differences that will make the swap very difficult.

Compared with 2000-2002, the 2003+ H-Body 4T65E:
1) Uses a different Pressure Control Solenoid (PCS) than pre-2003; the calibration in the PCM is different.
2) Has trans cooler line check ball in the channel plate, rather than in the cooler line fitting.
3) Uses a completely different Trans Fluid Pressure (TFP) switch with fewer outputs to the PCM.

Issue 1) could be solved by reprogramming the PCM. Issue 2) could be solved by hacking and piecing together tranny cooler lines from your 2001 and the 2003 trans.

But Issue 3) can be solved only by either:
-Swapping in the entire PCM and engine/trans harness from a 2003/2004 H-body (and that could play havoc with your BCM); or,
-Swapping the oil pump, valve body and channel plate from a 2000-2002 trans into the 2003 trans
(Either of these would also solve issue 1), but you'd still have to hack cooler lines as per issue 2)

If you are truly looking for a no-doubt, no-hassle, drop-in transaxle for your 2001 Bonne SE, you must find a 2000 to 2002 H-Body 4T65E...ideally from an n/a (not s/c) car and with the same Final Drive Ratio (FDR) as you have now. Anything else will require work ranging from swapping in some parts from your current trans to outright hacks to make it work.

NOTE: If you find a 2000-2002 n/a 4T65E that has a different FDR than you have now, it's fairly easy to swap your current differential and sun gear into it, OR perhaps find a way to reprogram your PCM.

NOTE 2: If you find a 2000-2002 s/c 4T65E-HD, you'll have to either swap in your current drive/driven sprockets (more difficult) and output shaft, diffy and sungear, and torque converter (TC) OR find a way to reprogram your PCM AND get a 2000+ -HD passenger's side axle AND swap in your current TC.

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To make a long story short:

Best, easiest, option: 2000-2002 H-body (Bonneville, LeSabre) 4T65E from n/a car, with same FDR
Good, fairly easy, option: 2000-2002 H-body 4T65E from n/a car, with different FDR (swap in current FDR)
Difficult option: 2000-2002 H-body 4T65E-HD from s/c car, and swap over a bunch of parts
VERY difficult option: anything else

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MORE NOTES:

2003+ 4T65E has a different type of 3rd clutch sprag...but unless you're doing a full rebuild this is not an issue.

2003+ 4T65E has hardened 4th (overdrive) clutch hub splines...I would recommend to anyone who is rebuilding or installing a pre-2003 4T65E to swap in a 2003+ hardened clutch hub, as this will greatly prolong the life of the OD (a moderately challenging task, and about $75 to $100 in parts). And if you're going to do that, you might consider swapping in a newly redesigned, 2006+ hardened drive chain, especially if the current chain shows stretch (a more difficult, but doable task, and about another $100 to $125 in parts...and if you go this far, a s/c trans is as nearly easy a starting point as an n/a trans ).

[EWC88]

Ed was going give me a 03 PCM for free with the package. But its looking like theres alot more money and everything involved with putting that tranny in, correct me if I'm wrong.