weird issues, please read problem inside and help if you can

[88bonnsse]

1987 olds delta 88 royale 3.8L

2 weeks ago car started loosing power and back firing out the throttle body, I looked under car while it was running and the catalytic converter was glowing red hot.

so I put in a new catco, new 02 sensor, and put new spark plugs and wires and one of the wires was not even staying snapped on to the ignition coil. also did fresh oil change...

after I did spark plugs, wires, 02 sensor, air filter and new cat converter. it does not back fire from throttle body at all no more but it still has issues.

issues-
1- big loss of power.. lots of hesitation while stepping on the gas. takes a long time to get to high way speeds.

2- smells like gas in the car when car is running..

3- exhaust sounds funny like it is puttering, and has a occasional rumble that comes thru it. also exhaust stinks. not sure like what but it does not smell like normal exhaust..

4- can hear the idle jumping up and down thru the exhaust tail pipe.

5- motor shakes when car is at idle

6- also car started to occasionally stall when I give it gas while in reverse ( did this 3 times in last 2 days ).


now I do have a actron scan tool with gm cartridge, and when I read the live the data while the car is running in park, it says 02 sensor is LEAN, and also when I scroll down to EGR it stays at 0%. not sure what that means but numbers for egr does not move it stays at 0.

NO CHECK ENGINE LIGHT IS ON AT ALL. AND NO CODES ARE PRESENT WHEN SCANNER IS HOOKED UP.


im not sure if maybe my muffler is clogged also, or egr valve is bad, or what. im not sure what is causing these issues but I can really use some help please.. my Bonneville is out of commission due to a leaky gas line that I can only get to by dropping the tank and its been too cold to do so. I do have my Tahoe I use to bring kids to school and pick wife up from work. but it would be nice if I can fix oldsmobile for her to use until I fix gas leak on Bonneville.

[myfirstbonnie]

Engine idling should see no activity from the EGR.

I would check the MAF. Unplug it an see how it runs. Check the wires and make sure they are on the correct cylinders.

Does this have the coil upgrade?

[88bonnsse]

Engine idling should see no activity from the EGR.

I would check the MAF. Unplug it an see how it runs. Check the wires and make sure they are on the correct cylinders.

Does this have the coil upgrade?

this has huge single coil, not the 3 separate coil packs.. and I tried unplugging maf. when I unplug maf, it runs worst and sometimes stalls if I don't apply the gas.


how do I check the ignition coil ? can I just pull the wires off spark plugs one by one and use a old spark plug, put it on the spark plug wire and ground it to engine while car is running to make sure all coils on coil pack are working ?

and yea firing order is correct.

[myfirstbonnie]

Yes you can check for spark like that.

[88bonnsse]

OK NEW PROBLEM....

so I was second guessing the firing order and decided to go give it a look over. first of all I did notice I do have 3 separate coil packs. not 1 big one.. this is what I found.

this is how my firing order was originally. ( going from left to right. )
( 34 52 16 )

so I looked online and found out it supposed to be
( 14 52 36 )

so I switched it ( 14 52 36 ).

once I switched the spark plug wires around on the coils, I went to start the car. it cranked for 1 second only and then I lost all battery power completely , no lights, no horn, no cranking no nothing..

so I checked all fuses and all were good, so then I disconnected the battery and reconnected it and the interior lights came back on and horn and everything worked again. BUT once I went to attempt to start the car the second time. as soon as I turned the key to the on position, it didn't even get to crank, it just lost all battery power again thru entire car and I cant figure out why. I even tried disconnecting and reconnecting battery like I first did..

this has me stumped.. I seriously don't know how changing spark plug wires around on the coil packs could affect the car and make it lose all battery power.. I checked all fuses under steering wheel a second time and they all were good.

but I cant get any power back to anything..

[rustyroger]

It sounds like your battery has died.
It could be the battery was on the point of failure which can cause all sorts of seemingly unrelated running problems, the ecu not getting correct voltage for example.
I'm surprised it hasn't thrown up some codes though.
Get your battery checked out and replace it if necessary, you might find it cures your cars troubles.

Roger.

[myfirstbonnie]

Make sure the grounds from the battery to the chassis and motor are connected and tight. IIRC the ground bolts to the block just below the ICM. Also make sure there is nothing touching the battery connection to the alternator.

[88bonnsse]

if my ignition switch went bad, would that cause me to not have any power to my head lights or interior lights or horn ? and battery reads 12.2 volts on meter.. but I left it on trickle charger all night and will see if it works later.

[myfirstbonnie]

All three are not dependent on the ignition, They should work all the time.

[88bonnsse]

UPDATE. took battery off trickle charger and installed back in car, it gave me power back then as soon as I go to start the car, it lost all power again. ( this is a side post battery.. )

I used one of my car audio ( agm batteries ) with top post and installed it in the car. car cranks now which is great and means it was simply shorted out battery screws.

but now I cant get it started which means I think I messed up the firing order.. this is the 3.8L v6 that has the 3 separate coil packs on the back side of the motor by the fire wall.. I tried putting wires in same order as I found online but it cranks and wont start.

what is the correct firing order. ? thanks

[SuperHbody]

whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa........the coil is mounted near the firewall? You gotta put up some pics of this. The design shouldn't be that different from the other variants.

[SuperHbody]

Forgot to post the firing order. The bank of cylinders facing the radiator are 1,3,5. The bank of cylinder facing the firewall are 2,4,6, from left to right. Now to my knowledge, your coil should be mounted right in front of your engine. The points facing the radiator are 3,5,1 from left to right. The points facing toward the firewall are 6,2,4 from left to right.

[Jrs3800]

Its the old 3.8... The coil pack is mounted top rear center of the engine over the rear valve cover...

The firing order is the same as any 3800 tho.. 1-6-5-4-3-2

And just like stated, Front bank( radiator side ) is 1-3-5 and firewall side is 2-4-6

Are you still getting Spark Joe?

[88bonnsse]

Its the old 3.8... The coil pack is mounted top rear center of the engine over the rear valve cover...

The firing order is the same as any 3800 tho.. 1-6-5-4-3-2

And just like stated, Front bank( radiator side ) is 1-3-5 and firewall side is 2-4-6

Are you still getting Spark Joe?

hey jr how ya been bro.. long time to no see. and its John

yes I used a inline spark tester. it lights up for every coil..

I think its a fuel issue now. i broke the lil think plastic hose that goes from the fuel pressure regulator to the skinny metal fuel line.. so i used a piece of rubber hose i had that fits tight on both connections..


now it cranks and cranks and cranks, but no start.. when i push on the fuel stem valve on the fuel rail. the gas barely trickles out. i know its supposed to shoot up atleast a foot or so.. but i do hear the fuel pump turning on with key in the on position, but i don't think its building any pressure into the fuel rail for some reason.. and this is strange because the car was running yesterday ( like *shoot* ) but it was running.. and then all of a sudden a few post up if you read, the battery screws shorted out i think because when i would try to start the car i would loose all battery power to everything.. so i used a top post battery i had as i didn't have no more battery screws to use the side post battery and now it cranks and keeps power but it don't turn over..


so since the coils are over the rear valve cover, with the tips that spark plug wires go on, are all lined up next to each other facing the firewall, its 1 6 5 4 3 2 .. going from left to right ?


i was going by this pic. ( 1 4 5 2 3 6 ). that's how it shows it on the coils in the pic below.. so then my firing order is all wrong then.. that pic sure is confusing cause it does say ( 1 6 5 4 3 2 ) but it shows the coils numbered as ( 1 4 5 2 3 6 ).. smh

http://autorepair.about.com/library/fir ... -12080.htm

[88bonnsse]

ok so i just fixed the firing order ( 1 6 5 4 3 2 ) and same thing. it cranks but no start. i will use my inline spark tester again to see of maybe one of the coils packs or the ICM took on a dump on me when the battery terminals shorted and the car lost all power..

i don't know what else to do.

[88bonnsse]

here is the replacement piece of hose i replaced that broke on the fuel pressure regulator. and also a pic of the engine and coil pack the guy asked for lol.

[88bonnsse]

ok so i confirmed im getting good fuel as i pulled plugs and they were wet and wreaked of gas, i confirmed im getting spark, i used inline spark tester and i pulled a plug and grounded it while cranking engine. but she still wont start.

im wondering if i flooded the engine from the excessive amount of cranking i was doing when the firing order was wrong..

if i did flood the engine, how long do i have to wait for the gas to evaporate before it would restart if that's the issue ?

[MattStrike]

Hold up.... Give me a few minutes to get some info down..

[MattStrike]

3/6 are on the coil to the left, 2/5 on the middle coil, 1/4 on the right coil.

(36 25 14) = (63 52 41)


You are lucky as *shoot* that the nose cone of your starter didn't break off with the ( 14 52 36 ) configuration.

Edit: fixed coil info

[88bonnsse]

3/6 are on the coil to the left, 2/5 on the middle coil, 1/4 on the right coil.

(36 25 14) = (63 52 41)


You are lucky as *shoot* that the nose cone of your starter didn't break off with the ( 14 52 36 ) configuration.

Edit: fixed coil info

ok so. im really confused now..

im not sure what you mean. the coil packs on my oldsmobile are not numbered. maybe they rubbed off.

but from left to right. how do the spark plug wires go to the coils ? I thought it was 16 54 32 like jrs3800 said in a post above ?

and above your saying 2 more different orders.. your saying (36 25 14) = (63 52 41).. so im really confused now :O



so do I put the wires from spark plugs to coils like this,

from left to right-
cyl 6 on far left, then cyl 3, then cyl 5, then, then cyl 2, then cyl 4, then cyl 1 spark plug wire all way on the last one to the right. ?