SOLVED

[zigger21]

Could this be a Fuel filter, Faulty MAF, Faulty EGR valve, I replace the coils and that's when I checked spark from the plugs and they sparked. I need as much help as I can get. I also unplugged the MAF to see if the car would run for a little while with the MAF unplugged for a little bit and it didn't start! so mu brain is mush. Would the MAF not allow the car to start even after the MAF was unplugged. Or even a faulty EGR Valve would that cause the car from starting. Can anyone please help me. EGR Valve, MASS AIR FLOW Sensor, if it was the crank shaft sensor I wouldn't have any spark at the plugs so that's eliminated. To know that I had spark I pulled the plugs and connected them to the wire coming from the coil and held the spark plug to a ground and it sparked like it should. Any help I beg you for your knowledge. A guy said the mass air flow sensor was bad on his and it acted the same way as mine was and he disconnected the MAF wiring harness and it ran for him, so I tried the same and I never had the same luck. Is there any other things I can try or test. I have a code reader and its not kicking out any codes and I have a Multimeter Fluke 87 and if there is anything to check using that I will check them ASAP. Please help I need this car to start running and I will do anything to get it going. Its a present for my daughter and I need it running before her birthday and Im desperate. We don't have the money to have it in the a Dealership so I need to get my hand dirty. Take Care/A desperate man in North Dakota. Take Care

[david]

First did the car run and then stopped running? Did you change anything and then it stopped running?Did you check to see if your pistons are moving broken timing belt? How about this what car,year,engine. Need the basics first . My 2000 Sle ran with a bad egr sensor.

[Bugsi]

Please don't double post. You already have a thread open about this problem.

[Bugsi]

A guy said the mass air flow sensor was bad on his and it acted the same way as mine was and he disconnected the MAF wiring harness and it ran for him, so I tried the same and I never had the same luck.

Actually I'm only told it should run with the MAF unplugged, I never actually did that with mine.

Because you're having a no-run condition with both fuel and spark, with air/fuel puff backfired through the throttle-body and air filter, you're having the *exact* same symptoms as my car *and* another member's car, where the problem was a bad MAF sensor for both of us, and I'm still strongly convinced you have a bad MAF. Also, if it *is* your MAF, your car is NOT going to run properly until you replace it, so at this point I'd recommend replacing it even if your car won't run with the MAF unplugged. You may have additional issues beyond the MAF, but all your signs and symptoms are kind of *screaming* MAF. So I'd replace that before doing anything else at this point.

In my experience the EGR only improves emissions and isn't critical to your engine running. It also generally throws a code early, and can typically be cleaned out and reinstalled without even needing to outright replace it. So I doubt very greatly that the EGR has anything to do with your car's problem.

[rustyroger]

I have come across similar symptoms in the UK with a BMW and a Peugeot.
In both cases it was a bad temperature sensor telling the ECM it was as cold as it could be, consequently the engine was given maximum enrichment, soaking the plugs with fuel and the engines wouldn't run.
In both cases a new sensor instantly cured the problem, however as a precaution I changed the oil as well because it was badly contaminated with fuel that had leaked past the rings.
The temperature sensor should have some resistance across its terminals, I don't know what it should be on your engine, but it should be significantly more than zero and less than infinity.
Worth a look before you start replacing expensive parts, even if it's not the problem.

Roger.

[zigger21]

Sorry for posting twice I am hoping I can figure it out because I don't have the money to take the car in to get fixed. How it all started I was at work and I tried to start the car and it ran rough at first and I limped it to the HI way and I got out running and she started running fine. After I got it back home and turned it off and tried it again and it wouldn't start. I have pulled the plugs and felt and smelled fuel on them and checked for spark on each sparkplug and they had good lighting spark. Are you 100% sure if I unhook my MAF the car should at least run a little because I unhooked it and it acted the same. I smell gas so it cant be the fuel pump or fuel filter because my plugs are wet and I checked for spark and they have good spark. So does the posters agree on replacing the MAF to get her back on the road?? I replaced the coils. The fuel is there and the gas is there I'm confused why she wont run?? Will a car not run with a bad MAF and if it was the MAF would it throw a code because I checked that and there was no codes in the computer that says anything's wrong. I called a shop and they quoted me to replace the fuel pump for $500. It almost cant be because I smell gas and my plugs are wet?? Im confused. I just wish I knew if it was 100% the MAF. I think Im going to trust Resident Gearhead Bugsi and give the MAF a try before I take it in. Would someone confirm with me if I smell gas that its not the fuel pump or filter. I also put in Fuel injector cleaner in last week to hope to clean the fuel injectors up/ Can someone confirm that my next move on the MAF is the right one and the bad fuel Pump is not it?? I need confirmation and help Please.. I'm begging for your knowledge.

[zigger21]

Sorry for posting twice I am hoping I can figure it out because I don't have the money to take the car in to get fixed. How it all started I was at work and I tried to start the car and it ran rough at first and I limped it to the HI way and I got out running and she started running fine. After I got it back home and turned it off and tried it again and it wouldn't start. I have pulled the plugs and felt and smelled fuel on them and checked for spark on each sparkplug and they had good lighting spark. Are you 100% sure if I unhook my MAF the car should at least run a little because I unhooked it and it acted the same. I smell gas so it cant be the fuel pump or fuel filter because my plugs are wet and I checked for spark and they have good spark. So does the posters agree on replacing the MAF to get her back on the road?? I replaced the coils. The fuel is there and the gas is there I'm confused why she wont run?? Will a car not run with a bad MAF and if it was the MAF would it throw a code because I checked that and there was no codes in the computer that says anything's wrong. I called a shop and they quoted me to replace the fuel pump for $500. It almost cant be because I smell gas and my plugs are wet?? Im confused. I just wish I knew if it was 100% the MAF. I think Im going to trust Resident Gearhead Bugsi and give the MAF a try before I take it in. Would someone confirm with me if I smell gas that its not the fuel pump or filter. I also put in Fuel injector cleaner in last week to hope to clean the fuel injectors up/ Can someone confirm that my next move on the MAF is the right one and the bad fuel Pump is not it?? I need confirmation and help Please.. I'm begging for your knowledge.

I double checked with a mechanic and he said that it could keep the car from running but when I unplug the MAF it should start but stumble but it will start could a fuel pressure regulator be flooding it out and keep it from running?? Has anybody ever heard of that??

[Bugsi]

Are you 100% sure if I unhook my MAF the car should at least run a little because I unhooked it and it acted the same.

No, I'm not 100% sure. I've been told that, but didn't actually try it when my MAF was bad, and don't know for certain that an L36 with a bad MAF will *always* start and run if you disconnect the MAF harness, especially if you have more than one issue. My last post tried to convey this. To be clear: I can't be 100% confident that your car will absolutely start and run if you unplug your MAF harness. Generally it should, but your car might be quirky or you may have something wrong in addition to a bad MAF. I believe from your symptoms you have a bad MAF. Read on. . .

I smell gas so it cant be the fuel pump or fuel filter because my plugs are wet and I checked for spark and they have good spark. . . .The fuel is there and the gas is there I'm confused why she wont run??

If your MAF is bad, you'll have fuel and spark and it won't run. You've made it abundantly clear that you have fuel and spark and it won't run. So. . . your MAF is most likely bad.

Will a car not run with a bad MAF and if it was the MAF would it throw a code because I checked that and there was no codes in the computer that says anything's wrong.

The car will not run with a bad MAF. When my MAF died it did not throw a code. (I had an OBD II codereader with me. There was no Check Engine Light (CEL) which indicates a code has thrown, but I plugged in the OBD II and there were still no codes.) When another clubmember's MAF died, his did not throw a code. Other people have had a code thrown. So it is known that the MAF can die and not always throw a code. It might even be more common that it doesn't throw a code.

I called a shop and they quoted me to replace the fuel pump for $500. It almost cant be because I smell gas and my plugs are wet?? Im confused.

Your fuel pressure can be measured with a meter at the fuel rail. You appear to have fuel pressure. I wouldn't jump to replacing the fuel pump, especially since you have to drop the fuel tank to do that. It's a decent sized job, and in my opinion unlikely to fix your car, and the pressure can be tested to rule it out, but I wouldn't even waste my time. I'd replace the MAF sensor.

I just wish I knew if it was 100% the MAF.

Well it's not really something like a spark plug that you can easily test. The best test is to rule out things that can be ruled out, like making sure you have fuel and spark, and then look for similarities to known-failed MAF symptoms, which you have *exactly*. So I would be fairly confident that you have a bad MAF. Really the only way you're going to know for certain is to replace it with a good one and see if your car starts. You can do it yourself with a new AC Delco unit for under $200, or you can pay a shop around $900 to do it for you. I know what I'd do.

Would someone confirm with me if I smell gas that its not the fuel pump or filter.

Anything is possible, but these both sound unlikely. If you were getting NO fuel, I'd consider these. You're getting fuel. I believe there's a Schraeder valve on the fuel line you can press while trying to start the car to see if there's pressure at the fuel rail. Of course, if you do that it will squirt gasoline at you, so take necessary precautions. I wouldn't even waste my time looking for fuel issues, as I don't see any symptoms indicating a fuel delivery problem.

[rfoster]

Agreeing with Bugsi. Your MAF is the first spot to look. Cleaning it with some MAF cleaner may help, or not. Its trial and error - some fixes work for one's car, others don't. Each car has its quirks.

Hopefully you get it figured out soon.

[Bugsi]

Also, because this is easy to check, check your Fuel Pressure Regulator for a leaking diaphragm.
Pull the vacuum hose off the FPR (plug the hose with your thumb) and wait 3 to 5 minutes, looking for fuel coming out of the FPR tube that the vacuum tube normally connects to. If any fuel comes out, replace the FPR.

[zigger21]

Also, because this is easy to check, check your Fuel Pressure Regulator for a leaking diaphragm.
Pull the vacuum hose off the FPR (plug the hose with your thumb) and wait 3 to 5 minutes, looking for fuel coming out of the FPR tube that the vacuum tube normally connects to. If any fuel comes out, replace the FPR.

Ok something Shady is going on, I had it in to the Auto store and got a call back and they said that they just needed to replace the plugs, I don't see how because I checked all the plugs and I cleaned them off and all of them had spark. How is this possible. I'm afraid that it will not be reliable because I'm afraid it will happen again even though they checked the fuel pressure Regulator and that was good. Fuel pressure was good. Why would new plugs run. I made sure the gaps were good at .060 and they were clean. I just don't understand?? It only cost me $80 for the 6 new spark plugs and labor which is very good. Its very weird to me. I'm going to pick it up right now. What are your guys thoughts on this?? Because Im at a loss?

[DaMaroon]

Spark outside the cylinder is a good sign but not a perfect way of telling if it'll ignite the compressed air/fuel mixture in the cylinder.

6 plugs going bad at once is unlikely. May be they'll let it run well enough to throw a code. Seems likely they needed changed.

[zigger21]

Spark outside the cylinder is a good sign but not a perfect way of telling if it'll ignite the compressed air/fuel mixture in the cylinder.

6 plugs going bad at once is unlikely. May be they'll let it run well enough to throw a code. Seems likely they needed changed.

He said they checked the fuel pressure and that was fine. Then he change the front three spark plugs and it ran perfect. So they replaced all the plugs and called it good. It just makes me mad that I didn't think of it and just replace the plugs, It would have saved me $40 but it worth not racking my brain over it still. Its running and running good so that is all that matters. Spark Plug's, I'm an idiot. On the front three I seen the spark in the sunlight so I thought that would be string enough. I should have just overhauled it and I would have been good to go. Plug's, plug wires, fuel filter, PCV Valve and recharge my K&N filter. That would have cost me around $80 but I would Have a complete overhaul? Well the past is the past, learn from it/. That's how we get to be better people. Thank you guys so much for your posts I truly appreciate you caring and sharing your thoughts. Take Care everyone and God Bless

[Bugsi]

$80 is a lot cheaper than buying a new MAF. It's also a pretty cheap bill for a bunch of expensive unnecessary diagnostic troubleshooting. If that really fixes it, just count yourself lucky and walk away with some new understanding of "best practice" troubleshooting on our 3800 engines.

Generally, for "runs rough" problems, the first things we go to are vacuum hoses, plugs and plug wires, coil packs, and emissions devices like PCV and EGR. Throwing in "no start" (presuming nothing obvious like broken serpentine belt or hydrolocked engine) we start looking at fuel delivery (fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, and fuel filter), electric delivery (battery, alternator, battery cables, grounding blocks, fuses & breakers) then crank position sensor, MAF, IAC, IAT, & ICM/PCM. Somebody chime in if I'm leaving something out, but generally I think that's about it. There's just not THAT many things that can prevent an L36 from starting up.

I'm REALLY glad your car is running now. I'd also be a little skeptical whether the problem you had is completely fixed or if it might return, so keep an eye out.

Finally, if your problem is truly solved, edit your original post in this thread to add [SOLVED] to the Subject line of the post.

[zigger21]

$80 is a lot cheaper than buying a new MAF. It's also a pretty cheap bill for a bunch of expensive unnecessary diagnostic troubleshooting. If that really fixes it, just count yourself lucky and walk away with some new understanding of "best practice" troubleshooting on our 3800 engines.

Generally, for "runs rough" problems, the first things we go to are vacuum hoses, plugs and plug wires, coil packs, and emissions devices like PCV and EGR. Throwing in "no start" (presuming nothing obvious like broken serpentine belt or hydrolocked engine) we start looking at fuel delivery (fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, and fuel filter), electric delivery (battery, alternator, battery cables, grounding blocks, fuses & breakers) then crank position sensor, MAF, IAC, IAT, & ICM/PCM. Somebody chime in if I'm leaving something out, but generally I think that's about it. There's just not THAT many things that can prevent an L36 from starting up.

I'm REALLY glad your car is running now. I'd also be a little skeptical whether the problem you had is completely fixed or if it might return, so keep an eye out.

Finally, if your problem is truly solved, edit your original post in this thread to add [SOLVED] to the Subject line of the post.

Thanks Bugsi, it really makes me wonder also if that was the real problem that was wrong and for $80 Ill take it. He said they changed the fuel filter, checked Fuel Pressure, Cylinder pressure and checked the fuel pressure regulator and changed the plugs with 6 new one's. The cheapest plugs for this Bonneville are $6.75 where I had it repaired. It seems so weird that it was that cheap. It scares me about what was actually done and what is in store for the future. Im sorry for being so skeptical against the mechanics, I was thinking this would be a $300 bill minimum. Also I feel like an idiot but How to I close my first post as solved. I made a reply saying this problem was solved with new spark plugs. Thanks Bugsi for helping me through it all. Take Care man.

[Bugsi]

How do I close my first post as solved?

Go to your first post in the thread. At the bottom of that post on the right side is a button: "EDIT". Click that. In the Subject line, click at the beginning to insert the cursor and type: [SOLVED]
Then click "Submit" to submit your edit of your post.

[myfirstbonnie]

How do I close my first post as solved?

Go to your first post in the thread. At the bottom of that post on the right side is a button: "EDIT". Click that. In the Subject line, click at the beginning to insert the cursor and type: [SOLVED]
Then click "Submit" to submit your edit of your post.

It would be best to leave the topic and just add a hyphen and the word solved next to it.

In the future when someone has the same issue, it will help them in the search function to be able to see what the original issue was.