Everything you want to know about upgrading your headlights

[enslow]

They were labeled xtreme white plus.

I will agree with you that they are better than Silverstar Ultras, however. But any blue coating will reduce output.

The Xtreme Whites ended up being just below the output levels of a standard GE bulb I bought at Wal-Mart whereas the Silverstar Ultras were quite significantly less. All bulbs were relayed.

The end result being the extra white/blue light coming from the PIAA over the Silverstar Ultra makes your eyes think "bright!" when in reality there is less light being reflected off of stuff downroad and back at you, the driver. Additionally blue light tends to scatter more than yellow which causes glare in fog as well as the additional reflection from signs and road markers that PIAA and others claim. But there will be less reflection off of non reflective stuff like critters and people. The end result being, why spend so much on these bulbs which offer no performance improvement when you can have far better bulbs for half the price?
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I'm not sure if you included this point in your posts anywhere or not. Some have noticed that while the whiter light from HID makes things brighter, you get more scattering in rain and fog. I don't know what kind of HID was installed, though. The complaints may have been about a cheaper kit. The yellow light from halogens is actually better in such conditions. I'm going to assume that scattering affects those bloe coated bulbs and HID.

[RJolly87]

Valid point. It may be wise that if inclement weather is a concern, the HID's may also be supplemented with amber fog lights. That gives you the best of both worlds.

[BonneMe]

After driving with proper 4300k HID's in a factory setup for 3 years, I can say that they are just fine in winter/rain. I've never felt like I would rather have any halogen bulb High/Low/Fog/Driving combination over just the Lows in my car.

I have added yellow Lamin-x to my fog lights for protection and for extreme conditions where finding lanes is near impossible. Having both HID and yellow halogen fogs gives me two different light sources to find lanes, see the road.

I will add, even on new cars, putting HID's in Halogen housings is poor practice. I Saw an 09+ Ford Focus last night with an HID plug and play kit. The first 30' infront of his car were lit up (and with more glare) much more than my GTI, but after that the light was much thinner, and still blinding once I passed him. Worse patterns, worse for drivers ahead of you, and no better "usable" light than a normal Halogen setup. The worst offenders are trucks with higher mounted lights.

[LeSabreUltra]

HID's are definitely better in inclement weather over halogens (unless you're using 6000K+), but percentage wise you do have more of a light loss in light being reflected off the road back to you in weather such as rain. They are still brighter than halogens as far as what you can see.
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[LeSabre in Buffalo]

For our cars, HIR/9012 low beams are a great upgrade. Plus they're indistinguishable from regular 9006 low beams for glare while putting out a genuine 90% more light. 1875 lumens vs. 1000 lumens. The color is white, with no hint of blue. So it's totally invisible to other folks on the road, and a giant boost to what you can see from behind the wheel.

They rock in inclement weather, too. I've run mine through fog/rain/snow, and never been wishing for more light.

[Ghosthawk]

Allof this has been extremely educational to say the least! I have seen quite a few LED headlight replacement bulbs on eBay of late and was curious what kind of opinion any of you might have on them?

[LeSabreUltra]

Allof this has been extremely educational to say the least! I have seen quite a few LED headlight replacement bulbs on eBay of late and was curious what kind of opinion any of you might have on them?

Don't bother...unless it's OEM equipment (like the new Prius) LED lighting technology still has a long way to come and in your headlights will be on the order of several times dimmer than your stock halogen bulb.

There are some LED sealed beam replacement modules that supposedly perform decently enough, but that does not apply to the Bonneville. And as far as any LED bulb that you just plop into your headlight well...yeah don't bother.

Likely in the future the thing to do will be LED projector retrofits. The new Prius as I mentioned earlier has an interesting LED projector setup.



But at the moment anyway, an automotive LED light source really requires a higher quality bulb than can be found on ebay and also generally seems to work best in a projector...
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[LeSabre in Buffalo]

I'll have a review of the Toshiba 9011/HIR1 high beam bulbs up in a week or so when the bulbs arrive. The 9011's replace the 9005's in the high beam position. A typical 9011 is ~2500 lumens, as compared to ~1700 lumens for a typical 9005. Doubling the figure means one now has ~5000 lumens of light from the high beams compared to ~3400 lumens or less from stock 9005's. IIRC the GXP's come with 9011's as stock high beams.

Once the bulbs get installed I'll be running a full HIR headlight setup with Philips 9012 low beams and Toshiba 9011 high beams. Of course the headlights will be re-aimed after removing/replacing them.

[TrueWildMan]

Thanks for referring me to this post. I assume that the Phillips X-Treme Power 9006 +80's are "plug'n'play"? I'm disabled now and really can't do custom work anymore...

[LeSabreUltra]

They are 100% plug and play, just standard based 9006 (or 9005) bulbs.
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[05joenov]

This was an amazing write-up.

[Bugsi]

Q: What about swapping a 9005 high beam bulb into my 9006 low beam spot?
A: [snip...] Your low beam housing was designed for a 9006 bulb, not a 9005. Swapping them out WILL negatively impact your beam pattern and cause glare to other drivers. [...snip]

Constructive criticism about this claim: Without a citation or experiment showing the 9005 in the low-beam position both changes the beam pattern, and specifically negatively, you might want to change this to being your own opinion -vs- established fact.

In general, the beam pattern is determined by the headlight lens. The 9005 and 9006 bulbs both have the same style glass tube body with top tip dipped in paint. The pattern of light they produce as bulbs should be identical, with the only difference being relative intensity. The headlight lens and aim is responsible for the focus pattern of the beam and where it strikes, respectively.

Experimentally, many of us have done this swap without experiencing a negative impact, to the contrary, those who have done this generally report an improvement. I also haven't noticed any objectionable glare.

I have no objection to recommending against using a part that wasn't designed for the application, if you believe it isn't necessary and have better options to recommend, but in this case I don't think there is any empirical evidence to support what you're saying will result as if it were indisputable fact, where I believe that is not at all the actual case.

[LeSabreUltra]

Thanks for the constructive criticism. I'm on my phone, so going into great detail would be a pain. But in short, lenses aren't the only player in beam pattern. Filament orientation plays a huge part as well, and that is where 9006 and 9005 differ, as well as the glare cap present on the 9006. The difference is slight but it is there, and it does negatively impact beam pattern even though you may not believe you personally can see it. Here is more on the subject, if there are any further questions I will clarify them later when typing is easier.

http://www.siennachat.com/forum/index.php?topic=1272.0

(reply #4)

http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulletin/a ... 22272.html
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[Bugsi]

[snip...]lenses aren't the only player in beam pattern. Filament orientation plays a huge part as well, and that is where 9006 and 9005 differ, as well as the glare cap present on the 9006. The difference is slight but it is there, and it does negatively impact beam pattern even though you may not believe you personally can see it. Here is more on the subject, if there are any further questions I will clarify them later when typing is easier.

http://www.siennachat.com/forum/index.php?topic=1272.0

(reply #4)

http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulletin/a ... 22272.html
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My main concern here is that there isn't any qualitative or quantitative demonstration that the difference from performing a 9005 swap will always be negative, which is what you're saying, as if it is an undisputed fact. To be clear, the reason one does this swap is to realize a difference. To that end, both the people who like the result and the people who don't like the result at least appear to be recognizing that there is a difference, so from that point at least, we can say that swapping a 9005 bulb for a 9006 will make a noticeable difference. From there, there appears to be only subjective opinion whether the difference is an improvement -vs- a negative impact.

Simply showing that the bulbs are different in any physical way does not show that the results of using those differences when swapping the 9005 in place of a 9006 is negative.

The post you linked to in the siennachat forum is right along the lines of what I'm objecting to. Reply #4 doesn't appear to have actually done the swap or experienced their results (positive or negative), and merely points out some differences between the bulbs, and recommend instead using [low-beam-intended] higher-efficacy bulbs. In the same thread, Reply #3 recommends the swap, saying it "makes a noticeable difference" [in a positive light], and Reply #9 experienced "4 years without any problems".

The post you linked to in the acura-legend forum experienced an objectionable difference in aiming, and yet two sentences later "was able to find a compromise that works". -If the only proof that swapping a 9005 for a 9006 will always produce a negative impact is that one person who did it needed to tweak the aiming to get a result that "works", and is choosing to keep this swap rather than recommend against it or find a low-beam-intended solution, then we should stamp a Mythbusters-style crudely-welded "BUSTED" stamp on this myth. It doesn't help the "negative impact" case that in the same thread another respondent described their results of the same swap as "the best thing I could do."

Our interest on our forums is to provide the best information we can to our members. It is one thing to recommend against using a high beam bulb in a low beam application because it wasn't designed for that use and there are alternatives that are application-designed for improved low-beam lighting. But it is quite another thing to categorically state that *the results will be negative.* To state that the aiming difference is slight but nevertheless always negative even though it may not be personally observed or detected is disingenuous. Negative impacts by their nature are things that impact one, and do so specifically negatively. If people do not actually experience it, or do not experience it negatively, then what you are describing is opinion or matter of preference, and not fact. I think the best we can state here is that the swap can make a noticeable difference, with most saying it is an improvement, and to check your headlight aim after the swap.

[LeSabreUltra]

It shouldn't have to be demonstrated (light optics being understandably sensitive), but I'll provide more evidence in a moment, for now a more in depth explanation now that I'm in a place where I can more conveniently type.

All headlamp designs, but especially with those using reflectors (i.e. non-projector style, or any Bonneville headlamp produced) are designed from one core component: the position of the filament. From there, the reflectors at the rear of the headlamp are precisely (please note precisely, headlight optic design is a very precise art) designed to reflect the light in a certain way out towards the road. If that filament is moved, EVEN SLIGHTLY, it throws off the entire design and the entire beam pattern is thrown off from the way it was designed, and yes in my opinion that is a negative.

I'm sorry, but I can't say that a 9005 swap is a good upgrade. Yes, it's noticeably brighter. Yes, some like it. But on that note the same thing is said by those who own HID kits on both counts, and yet no one worth their salt would say that an HID kit is in any way an acceptable lighting upgrade, and I'm sure I don't have to prove that to you. Know why HID kits cause excessive glare? The short answer is that the housings were not designed for that bulb, same as the 9005. The long answer is that the arc (light source) in the HID kit bulb is in a different position than the filament in a 9006 bulb causing, you guessed it, a bad beam pattern and glare. Just like the filament in a 9005 bulb is not in the same position as a 9006 bulb. If we say that a 9005 swap is okay, then at the very least we are hypocritical in saying that an HID kit isn't, since the reason the HID kit is not a good upgrade is the exact same reason that the 9005 swap isn't.

If it floats your boat and you like it, do it. But it's not something I'd care to condone if we are going to talk about acceptable, safe lighting upgrades. That will always be done in either one of two ways: using the stock optics to the best of their abilities (meaning using something that will work correctly with their design) OR changing out the optics for something better (projector retrofit).

If that's not enough, then here's a few more of the demonstrations you're looking for.

Stick with 9006 or 9012 HIR. Headlight designers are smarter than us.

http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2463761

Bad result, including a before and after photo test.

There's one thing to say about these: WOW! More range and intensity and much less glare than a 9005 swap. The pictures I have do not do these justice.

The lack of glare is what surprised me the most. There is no extra glare like the 9005 bulb gives off when it's in the low-beam housing. There is more light in the places you want to have light. If you looked at the car head-on, you'd swear the headlights were stock based on the lack of glare. I think these will be nicer in inclement weather than HID or 9005 bulbs since the light is aimed at the road, not going wherever it pleases.

I'll post up some better pictures once I find myself on a dark road with my camera handy.

In summary, the Philips HIR2 bulb is much nicer than any 9005 swap, especially to other drivers, and (very likely) in inclement weather.

viewtopic.php?f=14&t=17228

From our very own forum, regarding HIR over 9005 swap. Note the lack of glare. That's because the HIR2 bulb matches the 9006 filament position whereas the 9005 does not. Please also note the vast improvement in where the light is cast and the general vision improvement. This is due almost solely to the position of the filament. 9005 bulbs put out 1700 lumens and HIR2 bulbs like Dave used put out 1850 or so, a scant difference that is not detectable to the human eye. The difference is all in the proper use of the optics.

I did notice that the headlights were a bit too bright and I got a few high beam checks from oncoming traffic, even though they were aimed right.

Aimed right and still getting flashed? Glare. From thread below.

http://crxcommunity.com/viewtopic.php?t=11504

Bad result, glare. Before and after shot too showing the sloppy altered beam pattern and added glare. This thread actually is mostly pro-9005 but the photo results don't agree.

Yeah—the 9005/9006 swap works very well on certain very specific inefficient early BMW projector-type low beams. Because of the optical construction of that type of lamp, the blacktop on the end of the bulb is not needed to prevent upward stray light and glare (the cutoff shield in the lamp serves that function). Lamps like the fogs on your Toyota are fundamentally different, they are reflector-type lamps. The optical mess that results from putting a non-blacktop bulb in place of a blacktop bulb is considerably smaller if there's a full-cap bulb shield in the lamp, but even most of the reflector-type fog lamps that have bulb shields built in need that blacktop for control of glare and stray light.

This is from Daniel Stern himself. This man knows EVERYTHING about lighting, and he says it's a bad idea to put 9005 bulbs in any 9006 reflector headlight. From:

http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/e ... -opinions/

From the 'other forum' regarding the 9005 swap:

actually i did this mod, and the Brighter Headlighs, give weird cutoffs now.......

(1993 Bonneville)

I won't link because of the standing with the other forum, but will on request.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/ca ... 10679.html

Altered beam pattern, in projectors no less (which are less sensitive than reflectors to filament position).

Here's some pics in addition to those above. I'll note which side is the 9005.



Left. Note the horribly narrowed beam pattern and central hotspot.



Left. Glare.

I could keep going but I hope this is enough. Yes, it's brighter. Yes, you and others like it. That I don't argue with, and if it provides satisfaction, great. But if our interest is to provide the best information, saying anything short of a 9005 swap being inadvisable is irresponsible. Again with all due respect, I can't condone saying "I think the best we can state here is that the swap can make a noticeable difference, with most saying it is an improvement, and to check your headlight aim after the swap." because it fails to address the fact that the beam pattern will be altered away from the original factory design which SHOULD be considered the best possible outcome using stock optics. To take it a step further, the statement (and general viewpoint) you provided can be found, quite literally, word for word on many lesser forums regarding the use and installation of HID kits.

I hope I haven't come across as rude or abrasive, that wasn't my intent. I always welcome any concerns or criticisms in any of my posts and greatly enjoy a good friendly debate now and again.
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[Bugsi]

I hope I haven't come across as rude or abrasive, that wasn't my intent. I always welcome any concerns or criticisms in any of my posts and greatly enjoy a good friendly debate now and again.

Absolutely no offense taken. This is exactly the sort of information and dialogue I was looking for to establish a better foundation for the statements that the 9005 swap will produce a negative result.

I should note that none of these examples was in a Bonneville, and several of them were still subjective opinions with others in the *same thread* saying their results with the same swap and same model vehicles were an improvement. With respect to Mr. Stern's comments, he also stresses that the effects are different for different vehicle models, and the application under discussion in that thread was fog lights, where Mr. Stern's comments about more light close-in being the opposite of what is needed are completely accurate.

I never had any objection to recommending against the 9005 swap for reasons of "product not intended for this use" and neither do I have any objection to recommending against it for reasons of personal opinion, but in light of many members having improved results, I think such opinion-based comments should include that information as well.

I have no response or comments regarding HID bulbs or discussions sounding similar to my comments about the 9005 swap, since I have no experience with HID bulbs or their effects.

The post with photos of the 9005 spilling light vertically, however, is very instructive, and we've had similar threads on our own forums with various lightbulb experiments. I would like to see comparison photos like that for a Bonneville with the 9005 swap. I think ultimately that's what we need to see if there is appreciable vertical light gain with associated glare for oncoming traffic.

[renchjeep]

As previously stated, I bought the "cheap" HID upgrade kit on eBay, and spent months and many dollars upgrading to digital ballasts, relay kits, different Kelvin temps, etc. All told, I have spent probably $400.00 (most likely more) to get "my" desired results. Once I relayed the digital ballast system, finally went to 5000k, and adjusted my headlights a bit downward, I feel that I have achieved the desired result, at least in my eyes. I do have much "brighter" and "whiter" lights, and nobody is flashing their high-beams at me. From what my 43-year-old eyes tell me, I can see better at night, low or high beam, and reflective road signs jump out, and grab my attention, and the "cat's eyes" reflectors on the road are much brighter. Rain does not change this, but fog seems to reflect more unwanted glare to my eyes.

Of course, all of this is subjective. "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder" type stuff.

I do still hate the "warm-up" time. Makes it impossible to flash my highs if the oncoming driver doesn't dip his beams!

I always found the Silverstar Ultras bright enough for the Crown Vic, but just ordered a pair of the Phillips Xtreme for comparisons sake. The Vic also suffers from plastic headlight lenses, but I replace the headlight assemblies every time they "fade". I'm glad my Bonneville has glass lenses, but I wonder about the degradation of the reflectors. Maybe a new pair of headlight assemblies are in my near future? Anyone know of a good aftermarket supplier for the Bonnies headlight assemblies?

[LeSabre in Buffalo]

Next time the lenses are polished, put some Xpel headlight protection film onto them. That film has UV blockers in it, and will keep those headlights looking new for a long time.

In my experience with both the 9005 and HIR2 low beams, the HIR2's were hands-down better. There was no glare and much more light on the road with them. The 9005's produced an irritating amount of glare in any inclement weather, and degraded noticeably for light output in 6 months. If I had to do it over again, I'd do a HIR2 the first time knowing what I know now.

[psburtis]

I'm thinking about upgrading my cars lighting, and really enjoyed this thread. I think I'll go with the Philips X-treem Power's that you recommended, but was wondering if you had any suggestions for fog lights? Mine are both burnt out, and quite weathered. Should I replace the entire fog light, or just replace the bulb and shine the lens so it has the minimal possible effect on the light output? Also, do you have a suggestion for what type of bulb I should get? thanks!

[Bugsi]

I'm thinking about upgrading my cars lighting, and really enjoyed this thread. I think I'll go with the Philips X-treem Power's that you recommended, but was wondering if you had any suggestions for fog lights? Mine are both burnt out, and quite weathered. Should I replace the entire fog light, or just replace the bulb and shine the lens so it has the minimal possible effect on the light output? Also, do you have a suggestion for what type of bulb I should get? thanks!

If it were me, I'd polish the lens and just replace the bulb. I'm now using standard Sylvania replacements and haven't had to replace one in more than 2 years since I stopped buying the Silver Stars. You might also just try the Silver Stars, as at least some people get long life out of theirs, but I sure didn't.