car starts occasionally...please help!

[Metz]

I have a 2002 SSEi, and it recently has been not starting when i turn the key at times. This has started the past few days. Sometimes it starts right up, other times it takes several minutes of turning the key to off and start before it fires up. Once it fires up, it runs great.

I have a new Interstate battery (purchased last year) and the connections are tight.

Could it be the ignition switch failing? If so, is it an easy fix?

Thanks
Chad

[J Wikoff]

On an OBD I car, that could mean the crank sensor is dead, and it'll only start if your engine happens to be in the right spot of rotation. Don't know if that means the same thing for 96+.

Does it turn over, but just won't fire? Or does it do nothing at all?

[Metz]

On an OBD I car, that could mean the crank sensor is dead, and it'll only start if your engine happens to be in the right spot of rotation. Don't know if that means the same thing for 96+.

Does it turn over, but just won't fire? Or does it do nothing at all?

Everything lights up on the dash, the relays under the rear seat click, and the fuel pump "hums", but the car doesn't start.

Example:
Last Friday I was leaving work to go home for lunch. It did not start for me right away. I sat in the car for 3-5 minutes and it finally fired up. When i left my house to go back to work, it did the same thing.

Saturday: It started right up (like it always has)
Sunday: Started right up
Today: Leaving home to go to work= started right up
When I tried to go home for lunch today, it wouldn't start.

[harofreak00]

Are you getting a Service Theft System on the DIC?

[J Wikoff]

Does the engine turn over/crank until you let off the key?

[Metz]

Are you getting a Service Theft System on the DIC?

No, i haven't seen that message yet.

I just tried again, still not starting.

[Metz]

Does the engine turn over/crank until you let off the key?

No, it does not. It doesn't do anything.

[harofreak00]

Sounds like it could be an issue with your Theft Deterrent System. Black Pearl had an issue with his while attending a meet. With the help of a Tech2, we were able to diagnose it as a bad exciter which is part of the ignition switch.

Do you have any other keys you can try?

Vehicle Theft Deterrent (VTD) Description
The vehicle VTD functions are provided by the Pass Key® III system. Pass Key® III consists of an ignition key with a transponder embedded in the head, the theft deterrent controller module, the exciter assembly, and the PCM.

The exciter assembly is an antenna which is made up of wire coils which surround the ignition lock cylinder. These coils, powered by the theft deterrent controller module, emit electromagnetic energy which energizes the transponder pellet within the head of the key. The energized transponder transmits a unique value by radio frequency which is detected by the exciter. The theft deterrent controller module receives and compares this value to one stored in memory (a learned value). If the received transponder value matches a learned value, the theft deterrent controller module sends a password via the class 2 serial data line to the PCM. The PCM compares this password to one stored in memory (a learned password). If the passwords match the PCM enables engine starting.

This password is unique for each theft deterrent controller module along with the unique value of the key's transponder. This method prevents swapping one of the following modules in order to start the vehicle:

The Theft Deterrent Controller Module - which must receive the unique key value and then sends a unique password
The PCM - which must receive the correct password from the theft deterrent controller module to enable engine starting
The Ignition Key (Transponder)
The ignition key for theft deterrent equipped vehicles is a typical looking ignition key with a transponder located in the plastic end of the key. The transponder value is fixed and unable to be changed. The theft deterrent system uses the ignition key transponder value in order to determine if a valid ignition key is being used to start the vehicle. There are approximately 3 trillion possible transponder values. There are no visible electrical contacts. The keys may be identified by the letters "PK3" stamped into the steel shank of the key. The theft deterrent systems use the following types of ignition keys:

Master Keys
Master keys (black plastic end) are for full access operation of the vehicle. Master keys may perform the following functions:

Start the vehicle.
Lock/unlock all of the door locks.
Lock/unlock all of the storage compartments.
Lock/unlock the rear compartment lid lock.
Lock/unlock the rear compartment valet lock out switch, which is located on the IP.
Valet Keys
Valet keys (gray plastic end) are for restricted operation of the vehicle:

The valet key may perform the following functions:
Start the vehicle.
Lock/unlock all of the door locks.
The valet key cannot perform the following functions:
Lock/unlock all of the storage compartments.
Lock/unlock the rear compartment lid lock.
Lock/unlock the rear compartment valet lock out switch, which is located on the IP.
Ignition Lock Cylinder
The ignition lock cylinder performs all of the functions of a lock cylinder on a non-theft deterrent equipped vehicle. The ignition lock cylinder for vehicles with theft deterrent may be located on the steering column or on the instrument panel. In either location, the exciter coils surround the ignition lock cylinder such that they are very close to the head of the key which contains the transponder pellet.

If an ignition lock cylinder is replaced, new transponder keys must be cut to match the mechanical coding of the new lock cylinder. The new keys must be learned by the theft deterrent controller module. When replacing an ignition lock cylinder, refer to Programming Theft Deterrent System Components .

Theft Deterrent Controller Module and Exciter
Vehicles with steering column mounted ignition switches have the exciter integral with the theft deterrent controller module which is located within the steering column. Vehicles with instrument panel mounted ignition switches have exciter modules separate from the theft deterrent controller module with the vehicle wiring harness connecting the two. The theft deterrent controller module for vehicles with instrument panel mounted ignition switches is located within the instrument panel.

The theft deterrent controller module can learn up to ten keys (transponder values).

The theft deterrent controller module provides the signal to the exciter which energizes the transponder within the key. The theft deterrent controller module also receives and verifies the transponder signal value. When the theft deterrent controller module has verified that the transponder signal value matches the value of a learned key, the module sends an enable password to the PCM via the class 2 serial data line. If the transponder value is not correct, the module sends a disable password to the PCM.

Powertrain Control Module (PCM)
The PCM verifies that the password received from the theft deterrent controller module via the Class 2 serial data line is correct. The theft deterrent controller module can learn only one enable password. If the enable password is correct, the PCM enables the fuel system and engine starting system.

The PCM disables the fuel and starting systems if any of the following conditions occur:

The enable password incorrect.
The system disable password is sent by the theft deterrent controller module.
No passwords are received - no communication occurs with the theft deterrent controller module.

[Metz]

Sounds like it could be an issue with your Theft Deterrent System. Black Pearl had an issue with his while attending a meet. With the help of a Tech2, we were able to diagnose it as a bad exciter which is part of the ignition switch.

Do you have any other keys you can try?

The only other key i have access to now is the valet key. I tried that one also and it didn't work.

[harofreak00]

I'd love to be able to help more, but without being able to hook up a Tech2 to it, I don't have any answers.

[Metz]

I'd love to be able to help more, but without being able to hook up a Tech2 to it, I don't have any answers.

Thanks to you and JWikoff for your help. I may have to tow it to either the dealer or a nearby mechanic if i can't get it running soon.

[Archon]

There was a technical service bulletin regarding the ignition switch where plastic particles would interfere with the contacts in the switch. It was replaced with an updated switch. It is just listed for the 2000 - 2001 model years, however.

Back some time ago, 2000Silverbullet had an intermittent problem that was finally traced back to bad connections on the IGN1 fuse in the underhood fuse block. The fix was to push the contacts for the fuse in the block closer together, and to also put a slight twist on the legs of the fuse before inserting.

[Metz]

There was a technical service bulletin regarding the ignition switch where plastic particles would interfere with the contacts in the switch. It was replaced with an updated switch. It is just listed for the 2000 - 2001 model years, however.

Back some time ago, 2000Silverbullet had an intermittent problem that was finally traced back to bad connections on the IGN1 fuse in the underhood fuse block. The fix was to push the contacts for the fuse in the block closer together, and to also put a slight twist on the legs of the fuse before inserting.

I tried that too. I even switched some of the fuses out to see if i had a bad fuse. It is not the problem.

If i replace the switch, do i need to get new keys?

[Mark Fahey]

There was a technical service bulletin regarding the ignition switch where plastic particles would interfere with the contacts in the switch. It was replaced with an updated switch. It is just listed for the 2000 - 2001 model years, however.

This happened to me twice in the first 1 1/2 years I had my car and now you have to fiddle with the key to get the ignition to get out of the lock position.
I did not need new keys when the switch was replaced.

[Metz]

There was a technical service bulletin regarding the ignition switch where plastic particles would interfere with the contacts in the switch. It was replaced with an updated switch. It is just listed for the 2000 - 2001 model years, however.

This happened to me twice in the first 1 1/2 years I had my car and now you have to fiddle with the key to get the ignition to get out of the lock position.
I did not need new keys when the switch was replaced.

Mark,
Did you replace the switch yourself?
Is the switch made up of two parts (switch housing and key chamber)?

thanks.

[Mechanical Mike]

You need to know if the small wire on the starter solenoid is getting twelve volts when the key is turned to start. Connect a 12 volt test light or voltmeter between the small wire & ground. Another way is to simply listen for the starter to click. If it's clicking or has 12 volts then the starter is most likely bad.

[Steelworker26]

Wondering if you can tap on the starter as well to see if that works.

On both my Jimmy and an old diesel benz I had to tap on the starter to get it to start.
Very occasional they would not start. Other times they started fine.

[Metz]

You need to know if the small wire on the starter solenoid is getting twelve volts when the key is turned to start. Connect a 12 volt test light or voltmeter between the small wire & ground. Another way is to simply listen for the starter to click. If it's clicking or has 12 volts then the starter is most likely bad.

Mike,

I don't get any voltage on the small wire on the solenoid.
Thanks for your help.

[Metz]

Wondering if you can tap on the starter as well to see if that works.

On both my Jimmy and an old diesel benz I had to tap on the starter to get it to start.
Very occasional they would not start. Other times they started fine.

I tried to tap on the starter and she still won't start.

Thanks.

[harofreak00]

This is not a starter issue, its an ignition/security issue.