Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's, Olds 98 91-96, Buick Lesabres and Park Avenue 91-96. Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.
Well I am not sure to think. While I was working on my wipers (see other thread) I happened to look in my coolant reservoir to find it totally empty. Opened the radiator cap and the level was also down. The UIM has been done but not the LIM. The coolant is fine, the oil is fine, the exhaust does not smell and the car runs great. But I know, I know what everyone is going to say, its the UIM. I don't want to believe it. I have to travel like 2500 miles next week and really don't need this. Praying its something else!!!!!!!! :sad5: :sad5:
I am taking the chance anyway, I have no choice!
1997 SSE 40th Aniv. Dark Cherry Met., 35% tint all around, Chrome T-Stars, stock everything else
When is the last time you looked at the coolant level? its possible you are burning coolant so slowly that you dont see the white smoke, but it still leaking. I'd say to replace the LIM gaskets.
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Definitely do the LIM gaskets. I think you'll be fine on your trip, but be sure to re-fill the coolant. Keep a close eye on it, and get at it ASAP.
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harofreak00 wrote:When is the last time you looked at the coolant level? its possible you are burning coolant so slowly that you dont see the white smoke, but it still leaking. I'd say to replace the LIM gaskets.
I am not sure but I dont think it was that long ago, not long enough to go through that much coolant and it be normal.
I hope i am ok for the trip, I am taking it for an oil change tomorrow anyway and I am going to have them check it, and possibly do it when I get to NJ because I have a good friend Master mechanic that helped me do the UIM. I'll keep you guys posted.
It bothers me that this is happening, makes me want to get rid of the car. Something like this should not be happening, especially at 85000 miles.
1997 SSE 40th Aniv. Dark Cherry Met., 35% tint all around, Chrome T-Stars, stock everything else
Water pump is like $50 and maybe 1-3 hours to do it yourself depending on your mechanical experience.
But its a pretty easy job to do, it just took me longer because I have never done it before and I got stuck on a few things.
Last edited by GXP_vince on Thu May 14, 2009 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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ohenry5 wrote:Had the car in for an oil change today, its the water pump. Not a cheap fix but I'm happier with that then the alternative.
Not to second-guess your mechanic/garage, but did they show you weepage from the water pump? It is possible that they simply assumed it was a leaky water pump, if they are not familiar with all the other places these engines can lose coolant from.
(For instance--in addition to LIM gaskets and UIM already mentioned--a leaky plastic coolant elbow, which just happens to be right above the water pump, and COULD look like a drip from the WP.)
Wouldn't want you to get a false sense of security for your trip if it does happen to be something else.
Last edited by agrazela on Thu May 14, 2009 7:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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I do agree with that... Personally I'd be tempted to go in and replace the lower gaskets with GM aluminum gaskets, and possibly an upper intake set if that look damaged or degraded in any manner.. This would also allow you to take a good look at the upper to make sure there is no damage to the EGR port. I would throw the water pump in with those miles as well.. Elbows are cheap as well and would be a required replacement..
If you didn't get another upper as the one you have is newish and most likely still good... You still wouldn't even come close to $200 including coolant, oil and oil filter...
GXP_vince wrote:Water pump is like $50 and maybe 1-3 hours to do it yourself depending on your mechanical experience.
But its a pretty easy job to do, it just took me longer because I have never done it before and I got stuck on a few things.
Yea I know its cheap but I live in an apt with no tools and no place to work on the car, plus I have 2 jobs and don't have time to do it myself. So it has to be taken to a shop. Would love to work on the car, just dont have that luxury
harofreak00 wrote:Didn't you notice coolant puddles in your driveway?
I live in an apt and park in different spots, plus it has rained here the past couple days and there are puddles everywhere.
Jrs3800 wrote:Henery... The water pump is generally $30 and will take a good hour to replace.. Then you'll be back on the road..
How much did they want to charge to repair this? Anything beyond $200 would be rape in my eyes..
Rape or no rape, $298 + Tax was the cheapest. Thats calling around several places.
1997 SSE 40th Aniv. Dark Cherry Met., 35% tint all around, Chrome T-Stars, stock everything else
Ohhh its been one hell of a day, 1st shop thought it was water pump, they wanted too much and I didn't have the time to wait so i left, called some others and got Midas to price match and get it done. I get a call, "we have a problem" the bottom bolt holding on the water pump the head is broken off, we cant go any further. Not the water pump, just leaking from there. Was going to take of the timing cover and replace that for a tune of over $400, I was like cant you take it off and get the bolt out, so they sent me to another place.
Theres been no work to the car in that area that would have required anyone to touch that bolt, so it might have been like that for thousands and thousands of miles and just decided to leak now, I have no idea and am perplexed.
After the old water pump was tightened back up, etc, no leak, everything was fine. However, I was not going to trust this going on an 1200 mile trip. Last shop is doing the repair, waterpump, taking off the timing cover, tapping out the bolt, coolant, etc all for $368.
Oh and get this, they call me, they scratched the car (door) backing the car out of the garage and say to take it to a body shop and they will take care of it. I have not seen the scratch, will tomorrow, but I am quite curious what it looks like. Ugghhhhh what a day, its never, ever simple!
1997 SSE 40th Aniv. Dark Cherry Met., 35% tint all around, Chrome T-Stars, stock everything else
Just to give you some perspective, by the same mileage (85,000) on my 97 SE, I'd had the intake manifold gaskets done TWICE and the waterpump failed around 45,000 miles. Just so you have some perspective. On the other hand, I have over 140,000 miles on it now, and haven't had any problems since those repairs.
Some times you just have to roll with the punches. A broken bolt head, an extra hundred bucks here or there. Yes, $100 is the end of the world when you're working 2 jobs and you're a student, but in the big picture, it's just $100, and that's not such a big deal. Just get it fixed right and don't worry about it.
Regarding Midas scratching your door: That crap happens too. I wouldn't go to Midas for anything EVER, but still, if they scratched it, at least they fessed up. Get it fixed, have them pay for it, and move on. In the long run, this is small stuff.
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Like Andrew (agrazela) mentioned, and as shown in the attached image, there are lots of places for coolant to leak around the water pump. The four big bolts for the water pump (marked "7" in the photo) go into coolant passages, iirc, so the thread ends of the bolts are immersed in coolant. When replacing those, you are supposed to use thread sealant to prevent coolant from wicking out through the threads and causing a leak. If your coolant's anti-rust chemical had worn out, (coolant left in without changing for too long a time) those bolt ends could have rusted. If that happened, when the mechanic attempted to remove the bolts, the rusted thread end may have bound in the hole and caused the bolt to snap.
So, changing your coolant can be a pretty important thing. When you buy a used car, it may be best to assume that the previous owner never changed it, and do a flush and change on your own to make sure. Even that, though, would not prevent the rusting that might have occurred before you bought the car. If you have not done so, you might consider getting rid of any Dex-cool that is in the system and replacing it with "mixes with any color" coolant.
Last edited by bill buttermore on Fri May 15, 2009 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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No they didnt give me the bolt, I did not even think to ask so I have no idea.
Midas wasnt the one who scratched the door, they were actually really helpful and nice. Dont think they broke the bolt, because it was leaking from there before they got it. Who knows.
The last shop to repair it scratched it. So total with water pump, taking timing cover off and removing bolt, flushing system and removing dex (they put the green stuff in, which is great, I was just surprised, guess they know the issues with Dex) and putting everything back together, total $399. Have to go back when I get back from my trip and work out this issue with the damage. They are going to take care of it all, and I am going to be anal about it all the way! Here are the pics, what they don't show is how the door is kinda wrinkled where the scratches are. Oh almost forgot , they got two quotes from shops they use, $350+ and $600+. Going to paint both doors to blend paint, etc, I will keep you guys updated. Thanks for listening!
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Last edited by ohenry5 on Fri May 15, 2009 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1997 SSE 40th Aniv. Dark Cherry Met., 35% tint all around, Chrome T-Stars, stock everything else
