sparatic not starting

[bc21]

2000 SSEi

I have been having issues with my SSEi starting. This All started about a month ago when I was driving and all of a sudden the car stalls and would not restart. After having it towed back to my house I found I could get it started with starting fluid in the air intake. I also found I did not have any pressure on the fuel rail. I pressed on the release valve and nothing came out. So I original thought my fuel pump died. So i pulled the trap door in the trunk off to get to the fuel pump unhooked the fuel hose. Turned the key and fuel shot out of the pipe. So I moved to the fuel filter put a new one on and the car started up fine.

About 2 weeks later I went to walmart late at night, the temp was about -2 degrees that night. I was in there for about 2 hours getting a large order. I came back out and once again car would not start again. So this was the second time and I was really scratching my head on this. I was thinking maybe fuel line freeze up, I was low on gas that night. I put like 3 of those bottles of liquid heat in and put in about 10 gallons of gas. Once again I could get it started with starting fluid but once the can runs out so does the car. The next day I had the car towed back to the house. I checked everything again, checked all the relays making sure I had voltage. Everything seemed fine. I tried to start it and it fired right up I don't feel i did anything special this time, it just started running again. (good news the ice cream did not melt)

So this past weekend the same thing pretty much happens again it drove fine all day I parked it for about an hour, came out of the restaurant went to start it only this time it sputters a couple times tries to start or sometimes will turn over but stalls out right away. I gave up and left the car there went back the next day and it started right up. This sputtering start also happened again today and would not run.

My question is could I have a fuel pump that is starting to die and is this the way they die SLOLYor do they usually just kick the bucket all at once. Also could there be a sensor that is going bad. Not sure were to start any suggestions or help I would deeply appreciate.

As in my other post I have mentioned I have 2 SSEi's same year so I can try switching parts to see if that is the problem.
If this is symptoms of the fuel pump starting to go. I have priced out the entire assembly for the fuel pump at around $300 but i have seen just the actual pump for around $50. I know i will be able to disassemble the fuel pump kit and change out the pump unit itself. My question on this has anyone ever tried these replacement pump units only are they any good.

Thanks Brandon

[haro1225]

It sounds like the fuel pump is slowly going. My 97 was doing that before the fuel pump went. A local shop replaced it for $350

[sco99888]

i would check your ignition control module.

[laxmangl]

sounds like the same thing that was happening to my girlfriends lumina. We replaced the fuel pump and it ran great.

[Archon]

The best thing to do would be to put a fuel pressure tester on the fuel rail and see what kind of pressure you have. Also, shortly after shutting the engine off, pull the vacuum hose from the fuel pressure regulator to see if any fuel comes out. Check for any fuel smell on that hose, too.

[swampthing]

i would check what archon said first, but it sounds like what my 2k did when the pump went

[bc21]

Ok, so the car decided to start up today as if nothing happened. (I think it is getting like my grand father...she does not like to drive at night. ) Archon, I was able to do the do the test you recommended. I went to autozone and used a fuel pressure gauge they had and here are the results:

Car not running 28 psi
car running at idle 43 psi
car running w.o.t. 58 psi

I did smell a little bit of gas it wasn't a very strong smell just a faint. On a scale of 1-10 it was about 3.

Thanks again

Brandon

[Archon]

You really shouldn't be able to smell any gas in that vacuum line. With that, and the low first 2 readings, I'd suggest replacing the fuel pressure regulator. That's not to say you don't have fuel pump problems, also.

[bc21]

Archon and everyone thanks for the info. Today I was heading to autozone to get the fuel pressure regulator when I stopped at the park to let the kids play. AFter about an hour we got back in and it did the same thing would not start. So I had some tolls in the trunk and after I while of staring at it I removed the trap door in the trunk for the fuel pump. I wanted to see if any fuel was coming out of the fuel pump or if it is functioning at all. I took the first fuel line off marked " F ". I had my wife turn the key as if to prime the engine. Nothing came out. So I checked the other hose marked "R" nothing out of that either but I figured that was the air return line anyway. So I tried it one more time I put the R back on on removed the F line had my wife turn the key and fuel shot out. So now I am certain that the pump is giving me the problem. My question is:

1.Would you agree that this is probably the fuel pump or should i start looking at the control module, in the corner of the trunk behind the carpet, since I have 1 of the years that it was included? I believe 2000-2002.

2. hopefully its just the pump that seems easier and less $. Has anyone ever just replaced the actual pump and reused the
rest of the assembly or do these not work? Here is a link to Python Fuel pumps so you can see what I am talking about.

http://www.car-stuff.com/store/?N=11523 ... 11921+9211

you may have to scroll down to see it. There are some regular complete pumps but I am referring to the bottom one for $62.66.

sorry for the long thread I just want you to have all the facts.

Brandon

[Archon]

The odds are the pump over the control module. I'll check things and see if there is an easy way to bypass the module for a test. Do keep an eye on that fuel pressure regulator, too.

[bc21]

Archon hey sorry to be a pain, but I have more info and may have figured out what is causing the problem. About 2 years ago my fuel gauge was going crazy so I replaced the sending unit. When I reassembled everything back together I had to use some silicone around the top of the fuel pump do to the retaining clip not holding it tight. There was a lot of smell of gas. Well today I took the fuel pump out for the first time in 2 years and the silicon was not hard it had the consistency of jelly and it was all thru the pump. I believe this clogged up the sock at the bottom of the unit and the one on the inside as well. I am going to run some test on the pump to see if it still works, clean out the sock and lines. Then I will see what happens. I am going to drain the tank and try to wipe out any of the sludge. The only thing is it is pretty dark in the trunk, today all I could find was a candle to give me light....just kidding. No I may need to drop the tank for a thorough cleaning.

Do you think that the pump would be fine with out the sock on it or is there that much dirt in gasoline that it would be bad. I was thinking of leaving the sock off. I was thinking the fuel filter would catch anything thing that got in. Any thoughts?

Thanks

Brandon

[ptrfair]

just outta curiosity...is there a certain mileage point where our fuel pumps give out?

[Archon]

Did you replace the tank seal when you did the fuel sender? I wouldn't suggest that you run the pump without the sock. It helps keep cruddies out of the fuel pump that could damage it.

Edit - No real time span for when it will fail. Some last a good long time, while others fail under 100k. Just the luck of the draw, like many parts.

[bonnevillain]

it also helps to keep your fuel filter fresh, so it isn't straining to flow enough fuel. It will probably fail earlier if you have a clogged filter

[bc21]

No, I did not change the seal, I did not think about it at the time. Its one of those things when your at the parts store 3 mo later and you see the part you needed on the shelf and then the light bulb appears.

I figured that much with the sock just wanted a 2nd opinion. I am going to clean things real good including the sock. Any sugestions for cleaning the sock, like something that breaks down the sludge or gel. like sea foam deep creep maybe.

My car has 141k miles but I am thinking it was caused by myself using the silicone which broke off in to the tank and may of caused a clog

I will keep you updated

[Archon]

We all make choices (or forget things) that we regret later. And sorry, I don't know what might be able to clean up that sock. Maybe some brake cleaner? Other than that, the only thing I can offer is to try cleaning from the inside out...forcing things out the same way they came in, instead of trying to pull it through.

[bc21]

Sorry its been a while since I have been able to give an update. no access at work to internet and I have been taking classes at night for PA state inspection and emissions.

So where we last left off. The fuel pump strainer was clogged and I was debating on buying a new pump. I took the entire pump canister apart removed the pump itself and tested it using a 12v dewalt battery from my cordless drill. Pump worked great. So the next step was to replace the strainer. I went to advanced auto parts they do not have a strainer directly for the bonneville's but they do carry other types that are the same size.(you just have to ask them to check) Cost was about $6-$7. So I gave it a shot put everything back together installed the pump and the car has been running great not a problem yet. (yes i did pick up a new seal for the tank).

Thank you everybody for your input.

Brandon

[Archon]

Great news. Thanks for getting back to us on it.