I have a 95 Bonneville SE with a 3.8 L engine. I shut the car off and now it won't turn over. I checked the battery it has 12+ volts. I replaced the starter and have power to it (I jumped the solenoid terminal to the battery terminal). I heard the the solenoid engage and got a good spark. All of the accessories & gauges work fine.

I did notice the 2 bolts that hold the neutral safety switch down were loose. I tightened them up, I even moved the switch around while trying to turn the engine over, no luck. I also shifted the transmission while trying to turn the engine over, no luck.

Also the engine turns over by hand by pulling on the belt so it is not seized and was not running hot or abnormal when I turned it off.

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks for your help
Jerry

Hi Jerry,

I have chased that same boogie man. Mine still does it on occasion. I have changed the Ignition switch, starter/solenoid, alternator, battery cables & battery. I am anxious to see if anyone has the solution.

What is the security light doing on the dash during all this? Does it come on for a second when you turn on the ignition, then go out? Does it keep blinking? Does it stay on? Does it hop out of the dash and do a little dance on the steering wheel?

The other concern is when you jumped the solenoid, did you just power the solenoid, or did you also power the starter motor?

If you whack the starter with the handle of a big screwdriver, does it turn over then?

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

I am curious as to what happened when you jumped the starter. Did the engine turn over when you jumped the starter, or did it not do anything?

When you hit the key to start it, does the starter solenoid click at all?
When you turn the key to the "ON" position, do you hear the fuel pump?

Sounds like it could be a VATS issue, but we will get more information from you before we go into that.

_________________
Ryan

2003 Bonneville SSEi - The Black Mirror SOLD!
2002 Bonneville SE - The Mutt Complete 2004 SLE interior, drivetrain, and body harness swap, ECC swap, HUD swap, black GXP wheels, GXP headlights and tinted tails - SOLD
2003 BMW 540i M Sport, 2001 BMW X5 4.4i, 2010 GMC Acadia, 2017 Grand Design Imagine 3150BH
1982 Cutlass Supreme - The fun one

To answer your questions:
The security light blinks continuously when the key is on, yes you can hear the fuel pump when the key is on, I just engaged the solenoid when I jumpered across the starter, the engine did not try to turn over, no the solenoid does not engage when I attempt to start the car. The starter is new so I did not hit it with a hammer in an attempt to get it to engage. I did try that with the old starter though.

Unfortunately I just assumed the started went bad and bought a new one without even testing the old one.

You say it sounds like a VATS issue, what is VATS?

Vehicle Anti Theft System. If the light is blinking, it is indicating a malfunction with the VATS. The first thing I check is the tiny wires on the back of the ignition lock cylinder. They like to break because the wires flex everytime the lock cylinder is turned. You can check the circuit integrity by disconnecting the big connector at the base of the steering column and ohm the two tiny white wires in the orange shielding. You need to ohm the pellet in the key, then put the key in the ignition, then ohm the wires, then rotate the cylinder and look for any discrepancies. The reading directly from the key is what you want to see at the two wires anytime the key is in the ignition, and at any rotation of the lock cylinder. If not, the circuit is broken and can not read the key pellet resistance. A proper sized resistor from radio shack and some carefull soldering will bypass the system (disabling the VATS), or a new lock cylinder will fix it and keep the VATS functional.

Here is the latest. I hooked a remote switch on the starter, one lead on the battery terminal, the other lead on the solenoid, I then turned the key to the on position. I pushed the button on the remote start and the engine turned over and ran for a little bit.

With this said I am assuming you are right and it is the lock cylinder. Looking at the Chilton manual this doesn't appear to be an easy task, but I guess that's what needs to be done.

Just and FYI, I have a total of 4 ignition keys and none of them made the engine turn over, so I am assuming pellet on the keys are just fine.

Am I correct in assuming the lock cylinder?

Thanks

Well you need to do that test to be sure, but it's a pretty good bet.

Pretty sure you narrowed down the issue. You have two options. You can either repair the system, or you can bypass it.

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

Is there a specific size resistor I need to install or does it depend on the ohms reading? I sounds like it would be easier to by pass the VATS with soldering a resistor, but not sure what size to get.

Thanks

You need to measure the resistance of the resistor pellet in your key to find what value resistor to bypass the system with.

_________________
Andrew - owner/operator of Bonnevilles Unlimited

2004 Bonneville GXP | 60k | White Gold Tricoat | custom built supercharged 3800 hot rod | garage queen
1997 Corvette | 55k | Silver Metallic | Z06 wheels | Date-night Hauler/Parts runner
2014 Town & Country Limited | Cashmere Pearl | 95k | Family Hauler
2002 Ram 1500 Quad Cab Sport | Black| 260k | Official Bonneville Hauler

Ok the ohm on the pellet reads 7k. Can you tell me what size resistor for that? If I can't fix it with a wrench or a hammer I get pretty locked up, so bear with me. I'm hoping the next post from me will be thanking everyone and that I fixed it.

Thanks
Jerry

or put in a remote start. most new ones have a vats module that the system puts in line for remote starting.

I found the 2 white wires in the orange housing, but what I also found was one of the white wires was cut with a green wire soldered to one end coming from the cylinder lock and a yellow wire soldered to the other end. The 2nd white wire was stripped of its insulation and a gray wire was soldered to it.

When we bought the car used in 2000 it had a remote keyless start on it. A year later it started acting up, I took the car to the place that installed it and they wanted $200.00 to fix it so I told them to just disable it. They took a controller box out and called it good. I am guessing these spliced wires have something to do with that.

I did put an ohm meter on the white wire coming from the cylinder lock and the other stripped wire and read 3.5 ohms, I then turned the key on and read the same 3.5 ohms.
Then I put the ohm meter on the white wire not coming from the cylinder lock and the other on the stripped wire, I got no reading, I turned the key on and got a reading of 4 ohms.

I hoped I explained this good enough to understand.

What was done to the wires looked like something done after market, they just had a bunch of black taped wrapped around it. Do you think if I cut the Green, Yellow & Gray wire off and twist the cut wire back together it would be ok?

sonoma_zr2; I'm not sure what you are suggesting. You saying to put a new remote starter on the car? If so, it's really not worth that. Last remote starter I had installed on my wife's car cost close to $700.00. Living in Alaska they come in handy, but my Son can weather the cold long enough to start his car...LOL

Just a follow up from my last post.

I hooked a jumper wire between the cut white wire. This did no good so just twisting the the severed wire back together will not fix the problem.

Once I find out what ohm resistor I need do I just cut the two white wires from the cylinder lock and solder the resistor between the two (and not worry about the ends plugged into the electrical socket)?

You need a resistor that matches the pellet in your key. Then install the resistor on the un-molested side of the circuit between the lock cylinder and the passlock module. For you, this will all depend on where it was previously cut into. You need to go the opposite direction of the steering column, and keep going until you are past the previous splicing. There is a time-out if you attempt to start with an invalid resistance, and jumping the wires together without the proper resistor will flag a time-out cycle. I believe the time-out cycle is about 5 minutes?

Anytime I do this bypass (only upon request) I splice in on the lock cylinder portion of the wirring. That way, if anyone ever wants to bring it back up to standards, it only requires a new lock cylinder. For you, this may not be an option? It all depends on where the circuit was tied into previously.

measure the resistance of the pellet in your key to determine which of these resistances in the list you have.

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f53/vats-q-14866/

You want to put the resistance in the wires that go to the connector for the wires inside the yellow cover. Those wires go to the theft deterrent module or elsewhere to control the theft system. The theft deterrent module is on the right side of the dash behind the glovebox.
Do not connect the resistors into the wires going up the steering column to the key cylinder. That part is out of the circuit.

What is the resistance across the two sides of the resistor chip in the key?
The 3500 you read is close to the 3.74K Ohms. I believe the tolerance is 10% But see what the chip in your key is.

Ok, let me see if I have this straight. I measured the ohms on my key and it read 7 ohms so that is close to the 7.5 ohm listed on the link provided in the previous post. I might have confused everyone when I said "I stuck the key in the ignition and read 3.5 ohms across the two white wires".

Reading the description in the link on how to by pass the VAT.

Cut the two little white wires (that are encased in the orange/black insulation tube), solder a 7.50 ohms resistor between the two white wires. This resistor is to be soldered on the ends coming from the electrical cluster socket under the dash. NOT the ends coming from the cylinder lock. Correct?

Sorry for being so dense, but like I said if I can't beat on it, or turn it with a wrench, I'm in deep #*@&.

I have a 69 Roadrunner that is a whole lot easier to work on!

Thanks for your patience!

Correct. The VATS Module is in the dash, up behind where the airbag is.

Yes you are. J/K

Probably true, not to mention a whole lot more fun to drive likely too.

You're welcome.

You should also take note that resistors have a variance too. Their actual resistance usually differs slightly than what is marked on the package. The package will indicate the maximum variance also. You will want to verify the resistor pack before you put it in, to be sure that it is as close to 7.5Ohms as possible. The VATS allows a 2% variance high or low, so this will also work in your favor. The closer to 7.5 Ohms, the better.

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

SUCCESS!! I want to thank everyone for your help and patience! Never could have done it without you! Nineteen posts later Bonnie is up and running again! I will definitely keep this trick in the ole memory banks and hopefully I can pass this bit of SIMPLE information to someone else.

Excellent group of guys...again Thanks!