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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:10 pm 
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Location: Germany *WCBF '08 '09 '10 '11 survivor*
Year and Trim: 1997 Chevy Camaro Z28 6MT
2013 BMW 135i DCT
I have recently aquired an 85 Toronado. It has an olds 307 V8 with the electronically controlled quadrajet. The piston rings are shot and I am planning on replacing the engine with a 68-70 olds 350. Should I use the factory electronic quadrajet and engine management system with the olds 350 or should I replace the management system with an older mechanical quadrajet?
Furthermore, if I were to run the factory ECM controlled carb, would it be able to properly operate the olds 350's with its increased power? The 307's hp output is rated at 140 while the 350's hp should be 300+ (4bbl high compression engine). I appreciate the input.

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1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:23 pm 
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IMO, rip all that electronic carb crap out, and do it old school. That electronic controlled carb crap is a pain in the ass. My Dad's '85 Chevy Van with the 4.3 4bbl had it, and we had nothing but trouble with it. Finally ripped it all out, and put a standard Quadrajet on there with a 1 wire electric choke, and the problems ended.

(I love my 215's simplicity... No wires under the hood but battery/power cables, spark plug wires, coil wires, 1 blower motor wire, and headlight harness.... that's about it.)

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1992 Roadmaster - L05 V8 - 110k - Minty


Last edited by Bonneville92V688 on Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 11:49 pm 
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Location: Germany *WCBF '08 '09 '10 '11 survivor*
Year and Trim: 1997 Chevy Camaro Z28 6MT
2013 BMW 135i DCT
Here's some pics by the way:
Image
Image
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Those are plugs from cylinders #5 @150psi and #7 @30psi (thats why its soaked in oil)

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1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:34 am 
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Location: Galloway, Ohio IDDVI, MWBF05, NEBF06, CEBF06, ONBF06, NEBF07, ONBF07
Year and Trim: 1998 Buick Park Avenue Ultra
You're gonna have to pay some attention to that transmission, I think. They can handle more power than stock,but I'm not sure just how much.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:53 am 
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Year and Trim: 1990 Bonneville LE
VBCSpangler wrote:
Should I use the factory electronic quadrajet and engine management system with the olds 350 or should I replace the management system with an older mechanical quadrajet?


If that were the only choice, I would lean towards loosing the computer controlled carb in favor of a properly calibrated plain Q-Jet. The E4ME's have issues of their own and getting one serviced sould be an issue.

Have you considered going to TBI ? That yields a better fuel economy and isn't that much more of an expense.

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In the Garage: 2009 Subaru Outback, 1987 Camaro, 2006 SV650S, 1995 Regal 182 "ASANAGI", 1962 Ford Galaxie 500, 1995 Ford F150 XL 4WD, 1953 Farmall Cub


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 2:56 pm 
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Location: Waukesha, Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 2008 Cadillac STS
I had an 85 Toronado Caliente...It drove real nice..Leather/Chrome... I miss it...It had a voice system that spoke when something was wrong...very cool.

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Was - 1998 SSEi - 128,000 mi. ---- SOLD----
Was - 2003 Cadillac DeVille DTS - 91,000 mi. ----SOLD----
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:17 pm 
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Location: Germany *WCBF '08 '09 '10 '11 survivor*
Year and Trim: 1997 Chevy Camaro Z28 6MT
2013 BMW 135i DCT
The transmission has been rebuilt by a GM dealership within the last 10,000 miles. It is a TH325-4L, which I believe is most similar to a TH200-4R (correct me if someone knows better). The TH325 (earlier non-overdrive) was used in the same body with the olds 350, cadillac 368, and buick 231 turbo. Anyone out there have more info on this transmission?

I agree, going with the mechanical quadrajet sounds like the better idea. However, TBI sounds good, about how much would it cost to set that up?

Yea, this one has the "KITT" voice as well to tell me i need to turn my lights off or my parking brake is on, haha.

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1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2008 10:09 am 
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Location: Fayette City,PA
Year and Trim: 1990 Bonneville LE
VBCSpangler wrote:
I agree, going with the mechanical quadrajet sounds like the better idea. However, TBI sounds good, about how much would it cost to set that up?


As a kit from Holley, it's a little over $1000 with all new parts and a stand-alone ECM to run it. However, a little creative junkyarding can cut that to about 1/3rd that price. I'd use the TBI setup from a 305 or 350 C/K Pickup or full size van from the late 1980's/early 1990's. Adapter plate to mate the throttle body to the Q-Jet manifold is about $90. You'll need an electric fuel pump and a return line back to the fuel tank.

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Bye Bye 1990 Bonneville LE... Now it belongs to my daughter
In the Garage: 2009 Subaru Outback, 1987 Camaro, 2006 SV650S, 1995 Regal 182 "ASANAGI", 1962 Ford Galaxie 500, 1995 Ford F150 XL 4WD, 1953 Farmall Cub


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:24 pm 
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Location: Oregon WCBF'04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11 Survivor
Year and Trim: .
93 SSEi
95 SLE (SC)
97 Buick LeSabre
He just cruised by with some gunky V8 goodness in the back of his Dad's Isuzu Trooper (my trailer wasn't available). Included in the pile is a good quadrajet. I'll probably rebuild it for him before the project is done.

The quandary is how to get the motor out of the back when there's no room for my hoist, and no way to get it to his house now? Shoulda moved that over first, then got the motor.

:bsnicker: Jordan


We tested something here at ZillaMotorsports. He's at home putting it to practice hopefully, and then will be by a little later for my hoist:
Image

Gotta lower the rear so his engine STAND (not my hoist) can pick that sucker out of there, then come back with the empty trooper to get my hoist.
Image

Image

Not quite there......let's let some air out:
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Sent him home with some blocks, both ramps, and my 11-gallon tank to re-air enough to get back over here to finish filling the tires and pick up the hoist (12 blocks).

A little creativity goes a long way. This is similar to how I got the motor for the Zilla off my trailer.

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Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:07 pm 
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Location: Oregon WCBF'04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11 Survivor
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93 SSEi
95 SLE (SC)
97 Buick LeSabre
All set. My 2-ton folding hoist fits in the back of the trooper.

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Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 8:37 am 
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Geez Bill, you never stop giving, do you?

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Think about it. You’re tooling down the road in your Prius, knowing full-well that this thing being green is as big a sham as federally mandated ethanol-enriched gas, Russia pulling out of Ukraine, and Obamacare.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:56 am 
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Location: Oregon WCBF'04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11 Survivor
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95 SLE (SC)
97 Buick LeSabre
Hey, no giving here. He can only BORROW the hoist!

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Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 10:18 pm 
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Location: Oregon WCBF'04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11 Survivor
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95 SLE (SC)
97 Buick LeSabre
UPDATE:

He's tearing some stuff apart. Not sure which engine, but he just came by to borrow a big socket. I figure each favor is worth a beer, so he's in 3 beers so far.

1. For the unloading idea with the ramps and deflated tires.
2. For loaning him my engine hoist.
3. For loaning him a big socket for his crank pulley.


All in 2 days! Just enough beer for a good breakfast.

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Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 11:24 pm 
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Location: Germany *WCBF '08 '09 '10 '11 survivor*
Year and Trim: 1997 Chevy Camaro Z28 6MT
2013 BMW 135i DCT
Yea that socket worked, I was able to rotate the crank so I could remove the torque converter-to-flexplate bolts. I removed the the rest of the A/C stuff and disconnected most of the engine harness and vacuum lines. I have a considerable pile of parts in my garage now. Almost ready to yank that 307 out of there, just engine mounts, bell housing bolts, and exhaust pipe left to disconnect. I'll post up pics tomorrow when the sun shows up again.
The socket was for the 307, and I'll get my roommates to get me beer for you... like Old English 40s? :beerchug:

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1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 12:33 am 
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willwren wrote:
Hey, no giving here. He can only BORROW the hoist!

I meant giving TIME, EFFORT, and ADVICE. Bill, i think you should be Pontiac Bonneville Club.com's Man of the Year :twisted: :banana: :beerchug:

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RIP sandrock
Sirius wrote:
Think about it. You’re tooling down the road in your Prius, knowing full-well that this thing being green is as big a sham as federally mandated ethanol-enriched gas, Russia pulling out of Ukraine, and Obamacare.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:41 pm 
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Location: lockport,il
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i see gold paint
is that a olds 350 rocket

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:54 pm 
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Location: Germany *WCBF '08 '09 '10 '11 survivor*
Year and Trim: 1997 Chevy Camaro Z28 6MT
2013 BMW 135i DCT
Here's the pics:
I visited All American Classics in Vancouver, WA and picked up an Olds 330 4bbl high compression engine (10.25:1) out of a 1967 Cutlass. Engine is rated at 320hp and 360ft/lbs. of torque from the factory.
Image
Image

here it is on the stand in my garage
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Beginning removal of the 307 out of the car by removing radiator, shroud, and accessories
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Removed carb and disconnected all hoses/wires/linkages
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Disconnected flexplate to torque converter bolts after removing starter
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I can't fit a wrench in the small space where the exhaust pipe connects to the manifold:
Image

So I unbolted the manifolds from the head so the engine can lift off of them
Image

These two motor mounts are all thats holding the original 307 in its place, I'll pull it out tomorrow.
Image

My big parts pile:
Image

I'll keep ya'll posted on my progress.

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1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 11:21 pm 
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Location: Germany *WCBF '08 '09 '10 '11 survivor*
Year and Trim: 1997 Chevy Camaro Z28 6MT
2013 BMW 135i DCT
Oh yea, heres some wheels I was thinking of putting on the olds.

Pontiac honeycombs:
Image

Pontiac rallys:
Image

firebird turbo wheels:
Image

buick rallys:
Image

and olds SS-II or SS-III
Image

I'm leaning towards the turbo wheels or the olds SS-II, what do you guys think?

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1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:13 am 
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Location: Kenosha, WI
Year and Trim: 1994 Buick Park Avenue Ultra
VBCSpangler wrote:

I'm leaning towards the turbo wheels or the olds SS-II, what do you guys think?


IMO they are not going to look good. The FWD wheels have more offset on the back of the rim. RWD wheels will have more offset on the front of the rim causing the wheel to stick out past the body and look like a roller skate.

What I have seen that works well on these cars are wheels from a 4x4 S-10/Blazer, or Oldsmobile Bravada (keeping it all Oldsmobile). They have the correct offset and look great on those older FWD cars.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 23, 2008 11:10 pm 
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Location: Oregon WCBF'04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11 Survivor
Year and Trim: .
93 SSEi
95 SLE (SC)
97 Buick LeSabre
Nice pink totes you got for parts there. What's the deal, you couldn't get the blue ones?

:laughing3:

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Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers


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