Alright, I finally got the engine out this afternoon. I've picked the parts off of the 307 that I will need to install the 330; including oil pan, oil pickup, oil filter mount, newer fuel pump, flexplate, and crank pulley. I had some difficulty removing the engine due to a "hidden" bracket that connected the block to the driveshaft. That bolt was under the passenger side exhaust manifold, which I ended up removing to find what was caught. Once the driveshaft bracket was disconnected the engine came free.




That's my roommate Steve helping me out...




Check out the exhaust ports on the 307. If you look closely you can see the markings where the exhaust manifold ports met up with the head in a rectangular shape, while the circular ports in the heads are maybe 60% of the manifold port size. That partially explains the incredible lack of power produced by the 80's Olds V8.


Here's the 307 manifolds, which have the same size ports as the '67 330 shown in the image below.


Here's a picture of the FWD drivetrain on the Toronado.


Time to prepare the 330 for installation...

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1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.

An update......found a bunch of plastic in the oil pan on the donor motor. Similar to our lifter retainers. I was over there a couple nights ago, and suggested pulling the intake manifold and valve covers for an inspection to find the source.

Valvesprings on this new motor are a dual-spring design, and it looks like the plastic debris is coming from inside them. Either from a guide I'm not familiar with, or the valve stem seals.

Jordan, I missed your call last night due to a little birthday party and a $100 bottle of scotch. What's the score, and what did the salvage yard say?

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Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

that plastic could be from the timing chain and sprockets that
gm put on to quiet down noise. they used in my regal
with the 3.8 and i have done two small block olds and one big block olds
they all had a plastic coating on the timing chain and sprockets.
most likely thats what its gonna be

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tuffguyracing.com
83 regal 468 big block chevy
02 gmc k2500 6'' lift kit 35'' tall tires 148,000 miles original drive train
95 bonneville sle stock 230,000 miles original engine one trans rebuilt
95 bonneville ssei 163,123 miles rebuilt engine (mean green bonne) sold
95 chevy suburban k1500 203,000 miles wifes truck sold
01 ford f350 crew cab long bed 7.3l diesel 160,000

GM used a hard plastic umbrella seal on the valve stems on 70's & 80's motors. Darn things always seemed to break, so that is probably what you are looking at in the pan.

As mentioned, the nylon teeth on the timing chain break down as well and ends up in the pan too. I presume a double-roller chain is available for the Buick V8 motor?

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Bye Bye 1990 Bonneville LE... Now it belongs to my daughter
In the Garage: 2009 Subaru Outback, 1987 Camaro, 2006 SV650S, 1995 Regal 182 "ASANAGI", 1962 Ford Galaxie 500, 1995 Ford F150 XL 4WD, 1953 Farmall Cub

From the shape of the pieces in the pan, it's not from the gears as far as I know. I missed another call from him last night, but I do know that there seems to be alot of debris in the valve springs.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

Alright, I can finally sit down and catch up. Here's some pics of the debris and of the shot valve seals (might have to look closely through the springs). I also have a pic of the timing gear and chain. The gear is straight cut steel, but the chain is pretty loose on it. I'm in the process of working out some kind of refund or warranty extension from All American Classics, they seem pretty reasonable. In any case, I'm planning on sticking with this engine and just repairing it, since the rotating assembly and cylinder walls look to be in good shape.

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1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.

Valve locks are siezed by crud to the retainers and valves. Heads may be coming off. I tried to encourage them a bit last night with no success. Heads coming off is probably a good thing anyway.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

Did you use air or string/rope in the cylinders?

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97 Ei
97 GS
98 GS

No, Bill. I used magnetic resonance from a variable-flux fusion dampener.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

I so got to get me one of those.

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2005 GXP - White Gold Pearl, no mods...yet.
2000 SSEi - Resurrection in progress. Built L67 w/L32 fuel rail, ported heads, and cam. Camaro front brake system, GXP cluster, and much more in planning.

I just got off the phone with the manager of All American Classics. He explained to me that when they ran the engine when it arrived on their lot. There were no smoking or running issues, or else he would not have pulled the engine and sold it as a runner. That being said, the engine is guaranteed to run with good compression and oil pressure without burning oil as it sits. Also, the timing set appears to have been replaced with an aftermarket all-steel unit. The presence of plastic shards in the oil pan is a very common occurrence. So I can put the engine back together from where I am and it will be covered under warranty, or I can pull the heads off and replace the valve seals and service the valves. However, the warranty will be void if I do that. Another consideration: the rocker arms/valve lash is not adjustable, so if I grind the valves, I must take the same amount off the pushrods to keep the geometry equal.
Right now I'm thinking of just replacing the timing gears/chain and putting it back together. I would like to avoid any other complications that my luck always tends to bring up.

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1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.

Numbnuts is over here using my air and a die-grinder. I got some pretty *dang* good picks for later, especially for the ladies.

It's cold, so we're 'partaking' in some beverages to keep us warm (gotta grind on this CAST IRON intake manifold outside cuz the SLEeper is in the garage drying out from a leaky door seal).

This motor is scheduled to drop into the car this weekend (weather will cooperate with regards to wet, but not with regards to cold), but I think that's a little optomistic.

Bo is in hiding. Closet somewhere probably.










Cuz I'm finishing up the scotch.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

http://www.oldspower.com/

You should be able to use the computer stuff on the 350. But only a stock 350.

Update: I have the engine all assembled and ready to go into the car. I port matched the intake manifold at Bill's while I had it off. I also replaced the old timing chain, the broken oil dipstick tube and the torque converter. I found out last tuesday that the flexplate from the 307 will not fit on the 330 due to a different crank bolt pattern, so I picked up one off a 66 cutlass that fits on the engine. However, the ring gear is a slightly larger diameter, but I will compensate by putting a spacer plate between the starter and the bell housing. I removed the old distributor and replaced it with the HEI ignition setup that was on the toronado from the factory. I already had a new set of wires on the toronado that I will re-use, and I picked up the proper resistor type plugs. I am using the water pump off of the 307 because it has a longer snout for the accessory pulley, so it is required for running the toronado's factory accessory system. Stock Toronado manifolds are being used because they are the only ones that fit in the car
Currently I am removing the passenger side CV axle to give me more room to mount the engine to the transmission, since the pan sits in a tight spot between the diff, axle, and tranny. Here's pics:





Here's the 307 flexplate on top of the 330 flexplate:

_________________

1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.

lookin good cant wait to see more pics
when its in the car all done
i miss my olds 455 that was in my regal

_________________

tuffguyracing.com
83 regal 468 big block chevy
02 gmc k2500 6'' lift kit 35'' tall tires 148,000 miles original drive train
95 bonneville sle stock 230,000 miles original engine one trans rebuilt
95 bonneville ssei 163,123 miles rebuilt engine (mean green bonne) sold
95 chevy suburban k1500 203,000 miles wifes truck sold
01 ford f350 crew cab long bed 7.3l diesel 160,000

It turns out the flexplate i bought with the early olds bolt pattern does not clear the transmission housing; the diameter is too large. The '79 thru '85 toronados came with a unique small diameter flexplate to fit into the bell housing, while all other olds flexplates are the same in diameter. So I have a few options: 1.) I fabricate a custom flywheel with the early crank bolt pattern and the smaller diameter. 2.) I replace the TH325-4L transmission with a TH425 out of an earlier toronado (the unit is stronger, a TH400 turned around for FWD). This raises questions: does the TH425 have the same mounting points and shape that will fit in? Are the axle splines and lengths the same between the TH325-4L and the TH425?
3.) The option that I am thinking of going with: I replace the 330 crankshaft with the one out of the 307, making it possible to bolt the stock toronado flexplate to the 330. The stroke and bearing journals are the same size on these small-block olds engines, so they should be a direct replacement. The only downside is that I will be replacing the 330's forged steel unit for the cast crank of the 307, but it should be strong enough for my purposes.

_________________

1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.

Numbnuts is still bugging me regularly. He's got some hairbrained scheme for the flywheel......

He'll be borrowing my calipers or a micrometer in about 5 minutes when he gets here.

Calipers will go with him if he can't read a vernier micrometer.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

What, you don't have a quick lesson to teach him.

That should only be a 1 beer lesson.

I just got the call from Carquest in Albany, my Crankshaft out of the 307 is done being polished and is within spec. I'm gonna pick it up tomorrow and order a set of bearings, so I should be ready to install the crankshaft into the 330 and get the engine in this weekend.

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1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.

I have installed the crankshaft with new bearings and I finally have the engine in the car. I reinstalled the drive axle and put the hub assembly back together, so the car is sitting on its own 4 wheels now instead of jackstands. I just have to pry the engine/transmission assembly forward a smidge so that the engine mounts line up with the bolt holes in the block. Then it's just accessories, hook up the exhaust, radiator, fuel lines, throttle linkage, and plug wires. It's been snowing out here all week and I've been sick so progress has been slow. I'll keep ya'll posted.

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1997 Camaro Z28: LT1 with a proper 6-speed gearbox, Centerforce clutch, Bilstein struts, Ground Control adjustable springs, LCAs, PHR, SFCs, EBC Yellow brake pads, K&N intake, Comp Cams 502 (duration 218/224 @.050, lift .495/.503), LS6 valve springs, Pacesetter long tube headers, 3 inch Magnaflow exhaust, custom PCM tune by Wong's Performance Engineering in Vancouver, WA.

2013 BMW 135i: 3.0 liter turbo I6, 7 speed Dual Clutch Transmission, M-Sport package, bone stock.

Sold, but missed: 1996 Bonneville SSEi, 3.4 pulley, Intense intake, Zilla Motorsports ported LIM.