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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:05 pm 
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Year and Trim: 1990 SSE
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I enjoyed being a part of this active forum two years back when I owned my 90 SSE. Overall this old Toro has good bones. My biggest issue is with the climate control. It functions completely as it should when I have the key turned to the accessory position. However, there is NO blower motor function while the car is running. My next step is to unplug the fan motor harness and check for power while the engine is running. Any other ideas would be greatly appreciated. I did a similar post in the Toro owners forum but I probably won't get a response. Thanks in advance. Ren


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 10:36 pm 
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
The two most likely culprits are a bad blower motor, or the blower module (the auto climate control version of the blower resistors).

The simple test is to use a jumper wire - disconnect the blower, and hook it up directly to the batter. Alligator clips is what I usually use. Just long enough to see if it turns. You might have sufficient open circuit voltage with the blower connector off to lead to a false positive.

Is everything else working (cluster, hvac display, and radio)? It could also be a fuse, though I'm not familar with the schematics of the '86 Toronado. Also.... Is it an LG3? If it is, I must to go for a ride in it!

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The Fleet:
'93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread
'97 Camaro - Top swap
'05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 LeSabre - Top swap

Current project:
'99 Montana - top swap 3800

Upcoming projects:
'92 Bonneville SSE
'87 LeSabre T-type
'67 LeSabre

RIP:
'86 LeSabre - pictures
'93 SE - L67


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 13, 2019 11:56 am 
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Year and Trim: 1990 SSE
Hey Matt: Great work so far on the Montana. Amazing. I will respond more on the Montana post.

The climate control head unit is fully functional with the blower motor responding to all commands from high to low speeds to moving from defrost to face to foot to bi-level, all of this works when the engine is NOT running. The climate control head still appears (I can see the display screen showing defrost when selected, foot only when selected, change in fan speeds etc., to be functioning when the engine is running EXCEPT the blower motor when the engine IS RUNNING.

My next step is to unplug the blower motor, attach a volt meter to it, start the car and see if the connector is getting power. The radio, cluster gauges all work fine.

How do I tell if it an LG3?

Thanks, Ren


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:15 am 
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
lg3 is the 86-87 3.8 with the red badge inset in the intake manifold. Engine picture is enough for me to tell :lol:

Looking through my '86 Buick (Riviera) book- seriously, these diagrams are the worst lol. It references something called a power module. There's a purple wire that goes from it to the blower. Somewhere on that purple wire is a splice - a fusible link to an orange wire that feeds back into the HVAC programmer, presumably a voltage sensor. The only inputs shown on the diagram are a +12v battery hot and a 12v key in 'run' hot.

The fact that everything works until you turn the engine on makes me want to point the finger the data bus that connects everything. The feedback splice is the only thing I can think of (it has a fusible link that could have gone bad) that might explain the behavior. The manual I have doesn't go into specifics; but I'd be guessing here that once the engine is running the HVAC programmer is talking to the PCM and BCM and expecting to see a specific signal on the orange wire in order to turn the blower on. If the fusible link is bad, it won't get that signal.

The next best guess - the coolant temp sensor or wiring might have an issue - though I would think that only a problem if you select auto on the controls.

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

The Fleet:
'93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread
'97 Camaro - Top swap
'05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 LeSabre - Top swap

Current project:
'99 Montana - top swap 3800

Upcoming projects:
'92 Bonneville SSE
'87 LeSabre T-type
'67 LeSabre

RIP:
'86 LeSabre - pictures
'93 SE - L67


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 12:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
MattStrike wrote:
The feedback splice is the only thing I can think of (it has a fusible link that could have gone bad) that might explain the behavior. The manual I have doesn't go into specifics; but I'd be guessing here that once the engine is running the HVAC programmer is talking to the PCM and BCM and expecting to see a specific signal on the orange wire in order to turn the blower on. If the fusible link is bad, it won't get that signal.


Of course, this assumes that in 1984-86 some random engineer or programmer had the insight to assume certain failure modes and program the controller to turn on in a manner similar to the modern gauge sweep or 90's bulb test.

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

The Fleet:
'93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread
'97 Camaro - Top swap
'05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 LeSabre - Top swap

Current project:
'99 Montana - top swap 3800

Upcoming projects:
'92 Bonneville SSE
'87 LeSabre T-type
'67 LeSabre

RIP:
'86 LeSabre - pictures
'93 SE - L67


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:03 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 7:58 pm
Posts: 88
Year and Trim: 1990 SSE
Thanks Matt. I will look for a fusible link as part of my problem research.

And yes, It is the "red dot" engine. Is this supposed to be good engine?

I salvaged an oem muffler and tailpipes from a '92 that I hope to be able to install on my '86 that currently has the single tailpipe. I really like the growl of our Trofeos. My '86 is a Brougham but I hope to add elements of the Trofeo so that I end up with a Brofeo. It's got the FE3 suspension with the transverse mounted leaf spint in the rear.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
I think it's a great engine - when it's running properly. From the factory the timing set has a nylon gear that when it does go bad tends to bend valves. Then again, the one I had in my first car I could never get running right which is why I want to see this one lol. Curious to see what gas mileage it gets, how well it performs, etc. It should be about the same as the later 3800's.

My LG3 engine sounded the best with a cold air intake (removed all the baffles that make it quiet) and no exhaust noise. One of these days I'm going to build one up with the series 2 PCM so I can tune it and see if I can make it even better :lol:
https://youtu.be/VwyYbAyXIRE

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

The Fleet:
'93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread
'97 Camaro - Top swap
'05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 LeSabre - Top swap

Current project:
'99 Montana - top swap 3800

Upcoming projects:
'92 Bonneville SSE
'87 LeSabre T-type
'67 LeSabre

RIP:
'86 LeSabre - pictures
'93 SE - L67


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