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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:38 pm 
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
Well, I tore into my first ever Northstar engine this weekend. On the docket for work was intake gaskets, starter motor rebuild, spark plugs, throttle body and MAS cleaning, throttle body gasket, etc. 0171 and 0174 are the main two codes I'm hoping to kill off. We'll see if any others go too.

Other than breaking a few plastic clips (3D printer is already busy with replacements) everything seemed to go well. I didn't find any damage other than rotted out rubber. I did have to replace the vacuum lines to each valve cover, they just crumbled apart when I tried to remove them. Other fun findings: none of the intake manifold bolts were torqued down... None. They were less than finger tight. So, I want to say, I found the problem. Also the fuel injector O-rings were as hard as rocks and cracking, managed to get them out without casualties but it was close. The brake booster hose seems a little loose, like a hose that's gone soft from soaking in oil. So I'll have to replace that soon but for now it's going to have to work.


Well, here it is, freshly washed under the hood as much as I cared to do:
Image

And it's out! Took me maybe 45 minutes (going slow), I would say getting to the starter on this was actually not much harder than a 3800 is. And don't worry, I cleaned all that nasty out of there:
Image

A picture of everything getting put back together. Seems like the intake coupler is something like 3.75", but I managed to get a 3.5" silicone coupler on. The rubber one hadn't failed yet, but it was not in the best of shape either.
Image

Whoa!
Image

The spark plugs have me a little annoyed. I'm told the AC delco 41986 is the OE plug. That's what I bought to replace mine. The 41986 is a heat range 16 plug with a .040" gap. It's a really nice plug, appears to have a stainless steel shell, which is an appropriate application for a fastener into an aluminum thread. The plugs that were in the motor are obviously not original. They were the 41950, which is listed for use in this application, but it's far from the same plug. Heat range is 12 and the gap is .050", and the shell is just plated steel. I soaked them in PB blaster before trying to remove them, luckily I didn't have any stripped threads, but I measured an average of .070" gap and one plug had heavy white deposits on it (drivers side rear-most plug).

Now, I'm not an expert, but I know enough that dropping heat ranges is not something you normally do with an un-modified engine. To me it looks like there were issues with the plug being able to self clean in this case. This is the first time I've found plugs to be wet like this.

But after all of this, I got it back together and took it out for a spin. The engine seems to idle a lot smoother, so we'll see what happens next!

For arguments sake. If the GXP is a size 10 engine in a size 4 dress, is the STS a size 10 engine in a size 7-1/2 dress?.... :dontknow:

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Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
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Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:59 pm 
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That looks fairly easy to work on. Definitely easier than this stupid Ford intake I did this weekend. Spent about 5-6 hours on mine.

That's weird on the plugs. How can a plug 4 heat ranges colder be listed as a replacement? You probably just cleared half of your codes this weekend.

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92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:21 am 
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
I'm hoping that this fixes the 0068, 0101, 0171, 0174, 0300, 0507, and 1101. That leaves me with 7 codes. Two are from the RF WSS, one from bad trans fluid, two are covered under extended warranty (I was told by the dealer I have until 200k miles or June of this year to get it done). That leaves two that I'll have to do some real diagnostic work to determine what's going on. I'll have to get my own tech-2 this year.

I haven't been under the car yet, but I'm secretly hoping that I don't have to take the exhaust down to service the transfer case. If I do, it's going in for the extended warranty first (let the dealer break rusty exhaust bolts so I don't have to deal with it!)

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
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Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:45 am 
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Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
In the RWD layout, they aren't as bad as the FWD. The only problem that annoys me, is that plastic wiring harness gizmo on the passenger side, next to the cam cover blocks access for any room past the strut tower.

The heat range plugs was probably cause of your misfire.

What are the torque specs on those manifold bolts? 89 in/lb? I honestly forget. If it's around that, it is the same freaking problem the cam covers have. A couple heat cycling's and they're loose again. Grrr...

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
Lol, torque spec? I just go by feel on bolts that small, I don't have a 1/4" drive torque wrench yet. They have a metal sleeve to prevent you from cracking the plastic manifold, so once they bottom out I just give them a little extra with the 1/4" ratchet. If they are prone to backing out I might try some purple or blue threadlock.

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 10:45 pm
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Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
Yea, that is the same as the Cam Covers. I think they're called "Shoulder Bolts" or something like that. As such, they're usually around 89 in/lb. or 7.4 ft/lbs. of torque.

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
Getting ready to do an oil change. Was there ever a longer version of the PF61 oil filter, or is the PF61 the biggest I'll find?

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:39 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 10:45 pm
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Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
PF61 is the only one I know of on those engines. I think 58 and 59 are close.

If you want to experiment, go get a PF26 (what I have on mine). It is the size of a small coffee can. Not sure if it will fit, but...

_________________
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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
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Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
silly question, I know... How do I reset the oil life monitor?

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:31 am 
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 10:45 pm
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Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
With the buttons to the left of the gauge cluster. Scroll through until you get to the OLMS, then another one of those buttons resets it.

_________________
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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


Top
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:00 am 
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Posts: 4425
Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
Opinion time.

Universal K&N filter
-or-
aFe dry filter (21-90008)

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:38 pm
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Location: Lincoln Park, Mi
Year and Trim: 2004 GTO
Go with the cheaper option. The maf on the Passat is literally right above the filter inside the air box and so far I haven't had an issue with the k&n filter.

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-Ryan
2004 GTO....LS1, 6MT
96 SSEi...September 2010 COTM........GONE
04 GTP comp G.... December 2015 COTM........GONE
2001 Volkswagen Passat, 1.8T 5MT......winter beater

yourgrandma wrote:
Hi.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:13 pm 
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Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
Cheaper. There is NO flow difference between filter elements. Other than reusability, there isn't any point...

Years back I did back to back dyno pulls with my Camaro. Pull #1 was with a K&N filter replacement. Pull #2 was with a regular paper Fram.

The regular paper Fram did 2 more RWHP, which I would consider negligible in real world.

However, if you're redoing all the plumbing and then going to a cone filter for better laminer flow, then it's a different story. A reusable works a little better.

_________________
Image

Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 4425
Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
It looks like if I posted about putting a K&N on my STS on the caddy site I would have been roasted, lol. So I was just curious what dry filter options there were, and lo and behold there's $10 ebay filters or $60-$100 racecar filters, nothing in between.

The wife likes green, I saw some green air filters, I'll get one of those. I'm just doing this for the sound, so the only real changes are going to be a cone filter and a modified airbox to retain some semblance of cold air intake. Don't feel like relocating the MAS for this.

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 12:52 am 
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 10:45 pm
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Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
Yea, panel filters are a waste. If you're doing it as part of a whole CAI kit, obviously going cone, it isn't an issue.

_________________
Image

Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


Top
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 4425
Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
I decided to grab a spare transfer case (130k miles) and rebuild it on the side to reduce the amount of down-time on this car.

I tore it down this weekend to see what's what. The chain was stretched just a little, nothing worth worrying about, but why come this far and not change it? Some pieces are press-fit so they required various gear pullers to remove:
Image

I wish though that I'd seen this before I started. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this is most likely the same issue mine is suffering from right now...
Image

So I ordered a new input shaft, new seals, and might order a new output sprocket as the one in this transfer case had a chip in one of the lobes.

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:38 pm
Posts: 1862
Location: Lincoln Park, Mi
Year and Trim: 2004 GTO
Things are happening today.
Image
Image

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-Ryan
2004 GTO....LS1, 6MT
96 SSEi...September 2010 COTM........GONE
04 GTP comp G.... December 2015 COTM........GONE
2001 Volkswagen Passat, 1.8T 5MT......winter beater

yourgrandma wrote:
Hi.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 10:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 10:45 pm
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Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
Which did it end up being? 4476? Or 4479?

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Location: Lincoln Park, Mi
Year and Trim: 2004 GTO
It was the 4476.

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-Ryan
2004 GTO....LS1, 6MT
96 SSEi...September 2010 COTM........GONE
04 GTP comp G.... December 2015 COTM........GONE
2001 Volkswagen Passat, 1.8T 5MT......winter beater

yourgrandma wrote:
Hi.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
I didn't realize that a half quart was all. My transfer case in the Suburban by way of comparison, is something like 2.5 quarts.

_________________
Image

Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Mommy's NEW RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Daddy's beater affectionately called the Rolling Garbage Can or "RGC" for short
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2009 Chevrolet Impala SS: LS4 V8, Victory Red
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


Top
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