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 Post subject: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:36 pm 
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Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
So I *may* buy a Trans Sport Montana mini-van. It is a 2001 I believe. It is my in-laws. It has ~170k on it, and they never really took good care of it, which ended up in the culmination of a head gasket going two weeks ago. I told them it was a head gasket when they first had symtoms of overheating, but they refused to believe me and had other stuff done to it, to no avail. This of course caused overheating, and for them, such a vehicle in the poor shape it is, now with a blown head gasket(s), isn’t worth fixing. So they bought something else this past weekend.

So I threw out to the Wife, I’d take it, turn the 3400 into a boat anchor, and do an L67 or LS4 swap. Of course, first words out of her mouth are “what will that cost?”

Anyway, I know JRS, has done something similar, I’m just trying to determine whether or not it’s worth my time and money. I probably wouldn’t even get around to starting it until next spring anyway, and of course I’d need to find the right L67 or LS4 donor with trans and PCM/BCM/Harness, etc. Both options were used FWD applications over the years obviously, and both would result in some level(s) of complexity and fabrication. I think the L67 would be the lesser cost/complexity. As I mentioned, the van isn’t in the greatest of shape overall either. Rust, falling off body cladding, scuff/scratched paint, interior was filthy and never really cleaned. They lived in Iowa and out there in winter, they didn’t use road salt, rather sand, so there is sand/dust in all cracks/crevices, etc. etc…

The more I think about the fun I would have, surprising people with it, the more I talk myself out of it because I have sooo much free time on my hands...

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Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:50 pm 
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If its got any rocker rust, I'd say its a lost cause unless you plan on fixing it yourself.

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91 Honda Civic Wagon DX 2WD (fuelly) -- 208,000km -- 92hp -- Autocross Warrior
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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:51 pm 
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I think it does.

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:14 pm 
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W boby subframe bolts up and a regal harness/oxley works pretty well. Never heard of an ls4 being swapped in but it should physically fit.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:37 pm 
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Wouldn't a regal and Grand prix harness be one in the same?

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:42 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
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Location: SE Michigan
Year and Trim: '99 Montana
'04 Dirtymax
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Yes, +1 on the W-body sub-frame bolting in. I'm fairly certain it's even the same springs/shocks, but I'd have to look into it. My parent's ('99 Montana) has a 4t65-HD in it, courtesy of a W-body axle donor. I want to L67 swap that thing after the 3400 rebuild failed (long story...). I saw somewhere somebody built a turbo l67 U-platform, I thought it was a Chevy. I think he was running 13's.

Edit:
Here!!!

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The Fleet:
'93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread
'97 Camaro - Top swap
'05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'99 Montana - top swap 3800
'04 Sierra 2500HD - LLY Duramax

Current project:
Something cool, trust me.

Upcoming projects:
'92 Bonneville SSE
'87 LeSabre T-type
'67 LeSabre

Gone to greener pastures:
'84 Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 LeSabre - Top swap

RIP:
'86 LeSabre - pictures
'93 SE - L67


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:49 pm 
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Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
Since the W-Body subframe bolts right up, that would mean that any 2006+ Impala SS/Grand Prix GXP with an LS4, sub-frame should work then too? Maybe not as difficult as I once thought. Only issue, will it fit the confines of the Montana's engine compartment.

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 2:08 pm
Posts: 26009
Location: Space Coast, or at least it used to be
Year and Trim: 03 SLE, 95 SE, 95 TS SE
Can't give you any definitive answers... I think you already pretty well know the gist of what you'll be into.. and you may have a simpler time than we did with my van...

At the time we were looking at several options... But please understand that my 95 Van was based on the " A " Body FWD, using a battery of different parts ( loved GM for that one, nice to be able to use stuff from the parts bin to make a better van)... The 90-96 Vans used a battery of parts Based on the A body structure or FWD Platform it used W and H parts as well, so fitting a newer L26 in it was pretty easy with exceptions to the Brake master cylinder and throttle body... But most of everything worked out of us.. Its been almost 4 years now and the engine is still kicking and running pretty well with the exception of an ICM / coil going down, will fix that soon...

On the 97-06 Trans Sport/Montana and SV6, these are all based on the W platform, and I would think you could fit an LS4 under the hood, same goes for the 3800... You will be able to find most of what you need under the hood of a GP and other 3800/ LS4 w bodies... So I see this as very doable... As well if you used a 3800 with a 3.05 I would think you could pull down decent MPG's as well...

The L67 would be about the same just more fun..

The LS4 would do a tad worse but again washed out by the V8 note and Fun factor...

The LS4 is one of the things we were looking at for my van, but at the time it was all about cost and the Trans / LS4 combo was hella expensive then so we opted out of that and went with a cammed L26...

If I had an 01 Montana kicking around, the 3400 would be a Boat anchor with a 3800 dropped in its place...


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:43 pm 
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If you managed to pull of an ls4 with awd I would personally drive to your house and high five you.

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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:52 pm 
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Haha.

What it would boil down to is what is available. LS4 would be a pipe dream. I have a feeling an L67 car would be much cheaper and doable.

With that said, I would most likely send the motor off, be rebuilt, add some go-fast parts, etc. Send the transaxle over to the transmission shop I deal with, and having him fortify it. Then of course do some "work" blower, think about throwing an intercooler under it, and run a modular pulley setup.

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:25 pm 
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If you managed to pull of an ls4 with awd I would personally drive to your house and high five you.

:withstupid:

I'm close too! :P

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88 Cutlass Ciera Brougham International | 120k mi | White w/ Dk Claret Int. | Roller to be S2 L67/4T65E-HD | 1 of ~5100 3.8 FE3 Int'l series
91 Riviera | S2 L67 Swap/4T60E | 127K mi | Antelope Met. w/ Tan Int. | Saved From Death By Crusher
92 Bonneville SSE | L67/4T60E | 77K mi | Med Slate Grey w/ Two-Tone Grey Int. | Low Miles Time Capsule
92 Lumina Z34 | LQ1/4T60E | 177k mi | Torch Red w/Grey Int. | Rusty In Odd Spots
99 Tahoe LT | L31/4L65E | 276k mi | Spiral Grey Metallic w/Grey Int. | Truck for Truck Things and Portable Concert Hall
03 Park Avenue Ultra | 212K mi | White Diamond Met. w/ Shale Int. | Southern Time Capsule
05 Acura RL | 155K mi | Carbon Grey Pearl w/Ebony Int. | The Super-Hooptie Daily


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:26 am 
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yourgrandma wrote:
If you managed to pull of an ls4 with awd I would personally drive to your house and high five you.


This. lol. LS4 would be SWEEEEET!

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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:36 am 
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All I can give you is this..... Nobody would suspect the van..some of the tuner kiddies would have their day ruined...lol


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:15 am 
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1994 Buick Regal Custom
Jrs3800 wrote:
All I can give you is this..... Nobody would suspect the van..some of the tuner kiddies would have their day ruined...lol


This is worth its weight in gold here.

Not sure what would be better, the siren song of an M90, or a quiet muffled v8, so that their jaws drop in silence...

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1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:24 am 
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Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
I actually said that to the Wife. Johnny Tran pulls up in his "noodled out" Civic, then you promptly lay waste to him. She actually laughed and said "That would be funny!"

So don't think the thought hasn't crossed my mind.

Last night when I got home, on our kitchen counter, there was a "Donate your car" slip. I wrote on it, "DONATE TO YOUR BROTHER IN-LAW SO HE CAN DO AN L67 V6 or LS4 V8 SWAP"

I haven't heard anything yet...

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:02 pm 
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Well you already have an LS4.... Who needs an Impala?

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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:18 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 12:22 pm 
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I'll take the Impala with it's factory installed LS4 over the van anyday...

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:24 pm 
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sethjamesrimrodt wrote:
Well you already have an LS4.... Who needs an Impala?

:withstupid:

There's a reason I traded my 06. :P

_________________
Will
88 Cutlass Ciera Brougham International | 120k mi | White w/ Dk Claret Int. | Roller to be S2 L67/4T65E-HD | 1 of ~5100 3.8 FE3 Int'l series
91 Riviera | S2 L67 Swap/4T60E | 127K mi | Antelope Met. w/ Tan Int. | Saved From Death By Crusher
92 Bonneville SSE | L67/4T60E | 77K mi | Med Slate Grey w/ Two-Tone Grey Int. | Low Miles Time Capsule
92 Lumina Z34 | LQ1/4T60E | 177k mi | Torch Red w/Grey Int. | Rusty In Odd Spots
99 Tahoe LT | L31/4L65E | 276k mi | Spiral Grey Metallic w/Grey Int. | Truck for Truck Things and Portable Concert Hall
03 Park Avenue Ultra | 212K mi | White Diamond Met. w/ Shale Int. | Southern Time Capsule
05 Acura RL | 155K mi | Carbon Grey Pearl w/Ebony Int. | The Super-Hooptie Daily


James May wrote:
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 Post subject: Re: Project Montana?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:31 pm 
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Sorry, I'll take a mint, clean, nice, 2009 Impala with an LS4 factory installed and under warranty, over an 11 y/o beat to *shoot* van that will require me to engineer in an LS4 and require time/labor on my behalf, then have to work out all the bugs and kinks as I find them.

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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