Would you do a cam or rockers:

[myfirstbonnie]

I am wanting to get a little insight from those who have done either a cam or rockers. I don't want this to get into a money issue or a gas mileage thing.

Which did you do?

What made you decide to go that way?

Do you wish you would have done the other?

As for the poll, what would you want if you had a 2000 SSEi and wanted to do one or the other?

[tan96ssei]

i had this same thought cam or rockers? its much easier and cost effective to do rockers. plus the HP gain on a cam is much less until you get into heavy mods. from what i noticed the majority of the 3800 community does rockers do to ease of install. the cam is more effective for turbo applications and highly modded cars. for a DD wanting a lil more umph i recommend the rockers and springs; fender well intake, exhaust (HF cat and muffler, PEMS or PLOGS), PCM burn, smaller pulley are needed before significant gains can be made from the cam

[sandrock]

Rockers first. They are easier to do, and easier to UN-do.

[2003 SSEi]

depends on what you want, if you want to go fast, CAM it. Everyone that has done rockers wants more. why spend money twice?

plus when you look at it, the cam is actually cheaper
Edit

the YT 1.9 package from Intesne is $429 + springs $80 + (optional retainers $30)+ rocker install kit $50

the S1X package from Intense is $299 + springs $80 + cam install kit $90

PCM tune is needed for both obviously

plus the cam makes more power thru the band than rockers, seems easy to me

[00Beast]

depends on what you want, if you want to go fast, CAM it. Everyone that has done rockers wants more. why spend money twice?

plus when you look at it, the cam is actually cheaper
Edit

the YT 1.9 package from Intesne is $429 + springs $80 + (optional retainers $30)+ rocker install kit $50

the S1X package from Intense is $299 + springs $80 + cam install kit $90

PCM tune is needed for both obviously

plus the cam makes more power thru the band than rockers, seems easy to me

Cam is about 4x harder to install, however. Is this the basis for the meet in March?

[Pontiacdad]

Cam all the way, I'll tear myself away from work and help you over a weekend.

I have rockers and no real regrets but the cam builds power sooner and holds it longer.
Look at Rogues dyno numbers and time slips for the proof.

[tan96ssei]

ok so i understand the resoning behind the cam and it makes perfect sense but is the time needed to install it worth it? not to mention either one cam or rockers needs a tuning. plus if your into tuning cam and springs why not add a higher ratio rocker too since you are already in there plus with either you need the motor to breath in and out better so there is more on the project table.

now i will assume and please correct me if i wrong but i will assume you have a custom intake and exhaust?

if so i would think hard about it cause no matter which you choose you need a tune. with that said you will have the valve covers off and the front side of the motor so now you got to ask yourself is it worth it to do rockers while im at it?

[1337ssei]

rockers are cheaper in the long run especially if you find them used and are much easier to install
cam makes more power but is harder to install and a bit more expensive
btw if you get 1.8 rocker you can upgrade to a cam later on and keep your rockers and you really don't need a tune for rockers but it helps

[myfirstbonnie]

I want to clear one thing up. The cost of a cam compared to rockers is only $16 more:

Item........................Cam.................Rockers.................Cam Over Rockers
Valve Springs............124.99.................79.99 .................45.00
Valve Retainers...........29.99.................29.99
SC Coupler.................34.99.................34.99
VC gaskets.................49.99.................49.99
Elbows........................4.49.................4.49
Oil Pressure Kit............27.99.................27.99
Cam.........................299.99........................................299.99
Cam Install Kit.............89.99..........................................89.99
Timing Set.................79.99...........................................79.99
SC Gasket.....................................................................8.99
LIM Gaskets.......................................59.99....................59.99
Rockers / rods..................................429.99..................429.99

.............................742.41...............726.41 ..................16.00

This is why I said I don't want it to be a money thread.

As for the rockers are quicker, yes, and since I am doing all the LIM gaskets and P&P on it, why not put the cam in now? It will already be tore 2/3 the way to a cam.

As far as the exhaust and tune, they will be done and I have spoke with the fellows at Intense already and I am going to follow their input also. The reason for the initial work is to do the LIM gaskets, the SC oil, coupler, valve covers and pulleys. These are issues that need attention.

So, if the top of the motor was out and there was plenty of help and assistance, would you go the extra distance to put a cam in?

What I was really trying to get out of this thread is input from those with either a cam or the rockers as to why they made their decision and if they would rather have the other?

[bonnevillain]

as noted, almost all who put in rockers eventually want a cam. and if you did decide to cam later, you would have wasted your money on the rockers.

If the time/difficulty is not a factor, definitely cam it.

[Greyhare]

I do not have a lot of experience with the 3800 specifically but, I have built many engines from torque monster SBC's to psychotic L4's.

One constant with any gas engine is the cam controls the power/torque curves.

Rockers will change the valve lift but have no significant effect on duration (1 or 2 deg @0.05”) or valve timing events. One of the most important factors controlling where the engine makes power is the intake valve closing (IVC), rockers will not change the IVC.

For this reason I always go with a cam not rockers when there is a choice.

Decide what you want for the power/torque curves; then talk with various vendors to see if their off the shelf cams will get you what you want.

[Dirthead Racing]

I've done both.
I haven't heard of anyone losing a rod bearing after swapping rockers, cam is a different story. Cam makes more power given all supporting mod's equal. Tune is not "necessarily" needed for rocker change, still recommended though. Sounds like cam is obvious choice for you. Personally I'd still check the prices for another local L67 bottom end.....just incase.
My $.02

[clm2112]

I lean towards changing camshafts whenever this decision comes up. I just have a personal schism regarding aftermarket rockers..too many horror stories of failures (though all of these involved roller rockers made by Crane Cams.) Cam gives you a selection of lifts, durations, and lobe seperation choices..rockers just give you one (whatever the numbers of the stock cam you have are.)

[agrazela]

You said you didn't want it to be about money or MPG. So let's make it about capability.

If you are capable of installing a cam and getting tuned, do the cam. If not, do rockers.

[GoldenBullet]

if it were me i would cam it. are you going to be the one driving the car the most often?

[clm2112]

I want to clear one thing up. The cost of a cam compared to rockers is only $16 more:..<big snip>

One thing not on your list that I see is new pushrods (unless the cost is included in on of the install kits.) If you go cam, then include a set of better pushrods. Typically, if you are in a situation that requires changing the valve springs to heavier rates to follow the cam lobes, then you've increased the forces on the pushrods as well. A stiffer pushrod is extra insurance, and also gives you a chance to alter the valvetrain geometry at the same time (in case you need a slightly longer or shorter pushrod.)

[agrazela]

I want to clear one thing up. The cost of a cam compared to rockers is only $16 more:..<big snip>

One thing not on your list that I see is new pushrods (unless the cost is included in on of the install kits.) If you go cam, then include a set of better pushrods. Typically, if you are in a situation that requires changing the valve springs to heavier rates to follow the cam lobes, then you've increased the forces on the pushrods as well. A stiffer pushrod is extra insurance, and also gives you a chance to alter the valvetrain geometry at the same time (in case you need a slightly longer or shorter pushrod.)

To add, the more aggressive a cam we are talking about, the more lobe base circle will be decreasing, so longer pushrods may become a necessity. Which cam are you considering?

OP wanted to hear from those who've done both. My experience so far is completely n/a, but maybe it's applicable...

I did SR rockers (1.80-ish/1.85-ish modded stockers) on my L36. Yes, they helped increase VE some, but overall I was very unimpressed and instantly knew a cam was in my future.
I have a very mild cam (PFYC L67 Cam1) in my current L26 block--which is n/a now but will be M90'd soon--and it is night-and-day vs. the rockers in terms of how much additional VE it is producing in the powerband, how it shifted the powerband, and how much additional timing it is allowing me to add. I would have gone with a more aggressive cam, but I have to make sure I'll pass stringent CA urban smog tests first.

(Granted, the heads on my current L26 are mildly home-P&P'd and my current "UIM" is a gutted M90 on an L67 LIM, but otherwise the mod level between the two motors is identical)

[myfirstbonnie]

Yes, that is the info I was after. As far as the cam and pushrods, I am planning on going with the Intense cam and the pushrods was a decision I had not made yet. I know there will be a few additional expenses that come up and I have added a little cushion for such in the piggy bank.

I know there have been a lot of people doing either one and I was just wanting to know how satisfied they were with their decision. Along with that, these changes have been in use for quite awhile now and I am pretty confident that there will not be any major failures and if there is, I will do what everyone else here does. We tear down and rebuild and make it better when we do. I am not going to go out and locate another lower end "just in case".

Another question that keeps coming up is the work and capabilities of doing this. I have done a complete rebuild of a couple motors by myself in the past and I am not afraid to start into the modding world. The first engine I rebuilt was a 1979 350 in my truck. It was a complete teardown to the bare block and it ran for 7 years until I sold it (it might be running yet this day, I don't know). I will also have the assistance of other members here for additional technical assistance and have a lot of trust with them.

So, keep an eye out because we will be posting the progress throughout. The final test will be WCBF in July. I plan on having a couple other mods done by then.

[lash]

Nice!

I look forward to reading of your progress.

[JMH1950]

I'm looking forward to getting my greasy fingers inside your engine Matt.

After installing my rockers that is.