Surges and then dies eventually

Series I L27 (1992-1994 SE,SLE, SSE) & Series II L36 (1995-1999 SE, SSE, SLE) and common problems for the Series I and II L67 (all supercharged models 92-99) Including Olds 88's, Olds LSS's, Olds 98 91-96, Buick Lesabres and Park Avenue 91-96. Please use General Chat for non-mechanical issues, and Performance and Brainstorming for improvements.
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Keith1994SSEi
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SE Member
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 8:57 am
Year and Trim: 1994 Bonneville SSEi

Surges and then dies eventually

Post by Keith1994SSEi »

The car is not my SSEi, it's a friend's 1994 naturally aspirated Bonneville. Driving down the road it runs good, briefly, then starts surging, won't accelerate, slows down, won't climb hills, and eventually will stop altogether. At a standstill (no load), it idles well, but when revved up (again, no load) it almost hits 4000 rpm when revs drop severely then climb back up, repeat, etc. (surging, with the foot steady on the throttle). It has 38psi fuel pressure at idle, drops to 20psi when revved and the rpms drop--eventually dropping as low as 5psi or so as it stumbles down--all this with the foot at one position on the gas pedal. I don't know if the surging is caused by the fuel pressure drop or if the surging causes the fuel pressure drop, but it seems to me that fuel pressure should be more or less constant, with only slight drops on increased revs. What we've done: since lots of problems are ignition related, we replaced the ignition module with a known good unit. Didn't help. We Ohmed out the coil packs and they looked good, but that doesn't always mean they ARE good, so we replaced two of the three coil packs with two known good units (I have three coil packs but one is known bad). No change. I hooked up my scan tool and noted TPS is good (reads from 2.67 to 99.6% as appropriate), and O2 was sorta questionable--didn't seem as active as it should, but didn't throw any codes. In fact, no codes anywhere. Mass Air Flow went up and down as expected...
My first inclination is to go with a fuel problem and start troubleshooting that, from the fuel sock to the injectors. Unfortunately my experience is with forced air cars (Pontiac SSEi and Turbo Buick) and their fuel pressure goes UP with RPM and boost. How does the fuel pressure react with an NA car? I'm pretty sure it shouldn't drop as drastically as it does!
Any help appreciated.
Keith Hansen
1994 Bonneville SSEi
wjcollier07
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Re: Surges and then dies eventually

Post by wjcollier07 »

If the car has over 100k miles...it could be just the fuel pump dying.

Also, how old is the fuel filter in the car? If that is clogging, it will be cutting pressure as flow rates rise.

The base number for pressure already seems too low. I'd definitely vote for the fuel pump and filter being changed.

Is there no SES light? If there isn't, that would support this diagnosis, if there is, then please give us the code.
John
Now: '15 Toyota Prius III | 134 hp 2ZR-FXE | Silver | 36k
Now: '03 Honda CR-V AWD | Slow 4-Cylinder | Dirt | 180k

Then: '07 Ford Fusion SEL | 221hp Gen I VVT Duratec 3.0 V6 | Tungsten Silver | 150k
Then: '99 Toyota Avalon XL | 200hp 1MZ-FE 3.0 V6 | Diamond White | 189k | Sold: July 2015
Then: '11 Ford Fusion SEL | 240hp Gen II VVT Duratec 3.0 V6 | Ingot Silver | 84k | Totaled: Oct 23 '14 (Rear-Ended)
Then: '96 Buick Park Avenue Ultra | 240hp Series II L67 | Medium Dark Lichen | Bought: JAN 11 @ 135k | Accident: FEB 3 '12 | Crushed: MAR 1 '13 @ 153K
Then: '98 Pontiac Bonneville SSE | 205hp Series II 3800 L36 | Topaz Firemist | Bought: NOV '09 @ 74k | Accident: MAY 28 '10 | Crushed: MAR 15 '11 @ 84k
Then: '93 Pontiac Bonneville SE | 170hp Series I 3800 L27 | Dark Yellow Green | Bought: JULY '07 @ 92k | Sold: JULY '12 @ 118k
Then: '89 Pontiac Bonneville LE | 165hp 3800 LN3 | Medium Garnet Red | Bought: JAN '05 @ 117k | Sold: SEP 30 '07 @ 152k
Bob Dillon
Retired Gearhead
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Re: Surges and then dies eventually

Post by Bob Dillon »

wjcollier07 wrote:If the car has over 100k miles...it could be just the fuel pump dying.

Also, how old is the fuel filter in the car? If that is clogging, it will be cutting pressure as flow rates rise.

The base number for pressure already seems too low. I'd definitely vote for the fuel pump and filter being changed.

Is there no SES light? If there isn't, that would support this diagnosis, if there is, then please give us the code.
Either the fuel pump is dead or the filter's clogged, or both. The fuel injectors need 3 bar at the rail to spray correctly. 5 PSI? It's toast.
462 cubic inches of REAL Pontiac power.
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