GRRRRR-VROOOOM


Well dayum. I'd heard great things about the Northstars engine noise at WOT, and now I gathered why.

Oops. 20 above the speed limit already? Time to slow down.

Ding
"Service Stability System".

That's when the good feelings went away. My initial excitement turned to dread when I opened the hood . All I saw was engine.

No room for even a Q tip in the GXP Bonnie's engine bay. I pictured what changing a water pump would be like, and decided right then and there I wasn't going for it. I'd heard about the Northstar's weaknesses before (eerily similar to the head gasket and cam tower oil leakissues which plagued the Twin Cam 2.4 motor in my previous car, an N body Grand Am) , but the notion of spending two hours removing Other Stuff to fix Sensor A or Minor Part B held no appeal. Owning a Grand Am 2.4 will do that .

Then I test drove an SLE. Slightly softer in the turns , but the 3800's NA growl was just as distinctive as the N*, and I could actually see space around the motor. Space is good . Space meant no taking apart half the engine to get to stuff. That's not getting into the various ways oil can leak on a Nortshtar motor vs the 3.8 mill.

Sure I give up 1 second in the 0-60 run and 1.5 in the 1/4, but I got an LS1 Camaro to scratch that itch.

No offense to the GXP guys here, but peace of mind in my daily driver is worth more then money or horsepower.

Hopefully this helps folks on their own research to picking out which Bonneville suits their needs.

The whole SLE vs SSEi vs GXP debate is usually a subjective one that goes nowhere really. It's a mad system of tradeoffs.

I am glad you like the noise, because others have used the phrase "barfing giraffe" once they start fiddling with the exhaust system.

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

There are some jobs that would be very difficult in a GXP. That being said, a water pump for example is really very easy (even a starter isn't nearly as bad as some think). I don't get that deep into mechanical repairs compared with many here, but I have successfully completed a moderate amount of routine maintenance, changed the radiator, rear cam cover and the coolant crossover gaskets. The latter of which will cost many people two weeks worth of salary feeding a swear jar (including those who do this in the DeVille with much more room to work). I found the crossover gaskets to be relatively easy. A little time consuming yes, but technically not challenging. I attribute this to doing a little research ahead of time, gathering the necessary supplies and making sure I had (or at least had access to) to right tools. I wouldn't want to do a head gasket, but then again I wouldn't want to do that on any car personally.

_________________


Bose Luxury Sound System w/Touch Screen Navigation, Addition of Factory XM, 2005 MY Antenna, OnStar Upgrade (3G),
RainSense Wipers, Backup Camera, '00 Style Door Panel Courtesy Lights, Heated Washer Solvent, 2X Remote Trunk Release,
Turn Signal Mirrors, Center Console Courtesy Lamp, Rear Outboard Heated Seats, PVD Chrome 18" Factory Rims, Upgraded
Carbon Fibre Appearance Interior Trim, Highly Modified Main Body Harness, Instrument Panel, Door, Door Panel & Headliner
Wiring Harnesses, Custom Fuse Box & Tire and Loading Information Decals, Additional Acoustic Insulation

Yea, what he said. I don't care how difficult it is to work on, I'd take it over a N/A 3800 for a daily with some "zip." If it were an L67, that would be a tougher decision. However, there are many things that ARE easier to work on on N*'s too. It isn't all doom and gloom.

As to the service stability system, that isn't just a featuer on the GXP's. It was on other Bonneville's too! I bet it's something simple (steering wheel position sensor perhaps). We've had many a discussion on this topic over the years.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

Way I see it, it's risk mitigation.

If the head gasket goes on my 3800, it would still suck, but not as badly as on a N* which would basically " total" the vehicle.

If this were my only car, I'd say "screw it". Because going fast is gonna cost more money no matter what you drive. Fast, cheap, or reliable, pick two and so on.

That said it would take a lot of money to get any Bonneville of this generation to beat an LS1, so for my circumstances it makes sense to get the SLE and put my "go fast" funds towards the Camaro.

But no one here is outwardly trying to get their Bonneville to beat an LS1 (or any other Gen III, IV, or V V8 for that matter). Actually maybe one or two are, but they have a lot invested in theirs.

However, that doesn't mean I want to putter around and get passed by your average economy or family car today either though. One of the reasons I actually got fed up with my GXP is that I had my hands full beating down a simple V6 friggin Camry... You'd have zero chance against one with that L36.

On the flip side though, my current N* is *dang* near as quick as my LS1...

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

All of the bonneville motor options start to feel slow after awhile IMO. I still however think they're great cars and fun to tinker and play around with.

_________________
-2002 Pontiac Bonneville SE

gone, but I'll never forget it-2000 Buick LeSabre Limited, top swapped, ported gen3, MPS pulley system, FWI, SD headers, hockey puck mod, thrush turbo, 255lb pump, 180 t-stat, 245s on bullitts, and maybe some other things that I forget.

On Sunday I changed the PS pump, intake manifold gaskets, and throttle body gaskets
on my GXP. All three of those jobs were 10 times easier on the N* than doing them on my
95 SSEi. It took me all weekend to do one of those jobs on the 95 (of course the
intakes and PS pump are different than an SLE). I was afraid of the N* at first, but now
I just dig out the wrenches and tear into it.

_________________
Black 95 SSEi (original owner) 238K miles
Black 05 GXP (some idiot put the first 12K on it)186K miles
Black 04 Tahoe (original owner)310K miles
Black 16 Traverse (original owner)90K miles
Black 15 Lacrosse (some nice lady put first 15K on it)43K miles


"You can have one in any color as long as it's black" - H. Ford

For a second there I thought you were talking about me.

_________________
Boost addict


The Fleet:
'93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread
'97 Camaro - Top swap
'05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'99 Montana - top swap 3800
'04 Sierra 2500HD - LLY Duramax

Current project:
Something cool, trust me.

Upcoming projects:
'92 Bonneville SSE
'87 LeSabre T-type
'67 LeSabre

Gone to greener pastures:
'84 Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 LeSabre - Top swap

RIP:
'86 LeSabre - pictures
'93 SE - L67