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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:01 pm 
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Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 97.2 40th SLE
68 w/400
94 SSEi
Sorry for all the other posts about stupid stuf just have been really busy and didnt realize how many posts I had so here it goes this one is totally serious. I am going to tomorrow to look at this car.

http://milwaukee.craigslist.org/cto/1377227439.html


It is a 1997 SE. It is said to be in mint condition has leather, steering wheel buttons remote start, pretty much everything an SE could have as an option. The bad part has 275k although she said it was maintained by the dealer for its whole life. I offered her $800 on the phone and she said they were hoping to get $1000 but she didnt sound too firm. Oh also the rust she said it is very minor and is just starting and has minimal discoloring on the botto, of the doors.
Should I hit it. I was thinking $800 or nothing because of such high miles.

Any feed back greatly appreciated.

I know Bluebook is pretty much worthless but it does bluebook for $1100-$1800.
And usually SE's with this equipment with 120-200k go for like $1200-$2800 depending on condition of body around here

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1997.2 40th SLE-138k
1968 Bonneville 400ci w/TH-400-40k
1999 GMC Suburban SLT-191k
2005 Escalade 253k-GINA


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:08 pm 
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275K is just too high in my opinion. I think your $800 could be better spent on something with less mileage.
My 1997 SE gets driven pretty regularly and is right at around 145,000 miles. 275K works out to around 23000 miles a year, and that's really high mileage. At that kind of mileage you'd have to be looking at tranny and engine wear issues in the very short term.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:12 pm 
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Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 97.2 40th SLE
68 w/400
94 SSEi
Bugsi wrote:
At that kind of mileage you'd have to be looking at tranny and engine wear issues in the very short term.



This is kind of what I was thinking too but what if I test drive it and everything seems fine and all the fluids are good. How quick could problem come on. I guess this is kinda of a stupid question but maybe someone can answer.

Also I have allready done an engine on my 96 SE and a tranny on a Burb so the swapping out isnt too big a deal but I just hope it lasts through the winter

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1997.2 40th SLE-138k
1968 Bonneville 400ci w/TH-400-40k
1999 GMC Suburban SLT-191k
2005 Escalade 253k-GINA


nos4blood70 wrote:
Literally, cars are drugs.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:04 pm 
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Location: Green Bay Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 1998 and 1999 bonnavelle SLE 1994 bonnavelle SSE
miles dont mater to me on a car if it was well taken cair of and maintaned properly my bugy is driveing a 1996 bonneville SE and it has 479xxx K miles on it had has never replaced the engine or tranny yet it has had its fair share of parts go bad tho but still on its orignail power plant

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1998 SLE 178,xxx miles sold for $1,400
1994 SSE 289,xxx miles
1993 SSEI 324,xxx miles sold for $500
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:06 pm 
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480k miles on 1 motor/tranny... Wow! I'd like to see that.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Year and Trim: (RIP 10/31/15) 1997 SE
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Regular dealer maintenance can make me more comfortable with the miles, and $800 isn't bad. It looks pretty nice, but definitely get a thorough look at the underbody if they've mentioned rust. Check all window motors, air conditioning, HVAC/blower controls, instrumentation, etc., and any sign of water entering the cabin -water damage on carpets, etc.

See if you can get a look at maintenance records and find out how often the transmission fluid has been changed. Wear on the tranny would be my top concern. Especially find out if the intake gaskets have ever been done. Mine went twice, once at 45K-ish, and again at 86K-ish. Find out if it's still running Dex-cool or if it was ever green-converted. Check for holding oil pressure and for any signs of leaks around the radiator.

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`05 Mercedes S500


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 1:03 pm 
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a 275k car will nickel and dime you, everything is wearing out.

I wouldn't call a car with rust, "mint".

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 97.2 40th SLE
68 w/400
94 SSEi
Well we tokk the car home it is in pretty good shape. Acouple of tiny dents but nothing real noticeable. A little rust on the bottom of the doors nothing too bad. Interior is in really nice shape. It also happens to be a 40th anniversary. I know its not the 40th SSEi but still cool. Interior is amazing for 272k although the driver seat could use a new seat pad. Cause you can feel the seat motor in your butt. Runs and drives great. Only bad things needs valve cover gaskets. Also I am questioning if I should do the intake gaskets or not. Because the car has dex and I would like to flush it but it is kimda a waste if I dont do new intake gaskets too. It runs and rides really nice except if you put the pedal more than half way down from a dead stop it kinda bucks and jerks. What could this be tranny something wearing out?
All in all a really nice car that needs a little work but nothing to keep it from running. I got it for $720

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1997.2 40th SLE-138k
1968 Bonneville 400ci w/TH-400-40k
1999 GMC Suburban SLT-191k
2005 Escalade 253k-GINA


nos4blood70 wrote:
Literally, cars are drugs.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 9:58 pm 
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Sounds like a pretty decent deal. If the upper and LIM gaskets haven't been done at least once, I'd be shocked. They were probably done with stock gaskets, not aluminum ones, so it wouldn't be a bad idea to throw in the APN upper and the aluminum LIM gaskets.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:02 pm 
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Congrats and good luck with her...


Oh, and of course:
:bworthless:

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:05 pm 
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Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 97.2 40th SLE
68 w/400
94 SSEi
How long would you say those aluminum ones last.
I am just debating if I should do it or not because it seems like it runs good but I dont know when the last time the gaskets were done. Also I should get rid of the dex asap correct? IDK the car has ran 272k already with it maybe just leave it?
Also anybody know what could be causing the bucking problem when taking off from stop again it is only from a stop if your are already moving and you put it all the way to the floor it will not do this.

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1997.2 40th SLE-138k
1968 Bonneville 400ci w/TH-400-40k
1999 GMC Suburban SLT-191k
2005 Escalade 253k-GINA


nos4blood70 wrote:
Literally, cars are drugs.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:10 pm 
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Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 97.2 40th SLE
68 w/400
94 SSEi
Where do you get the apn aluminum gaskets from?

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1997.2 40th SLE-138k
1968 Bonneville 400ci w/TH-400-40k
1999 GMC Suburban SLT-191k
2005 Escalade 253k-GINA


nos4blood70 wrote:
Literally, cars are drugs.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:13 pm 
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Is 1997 the first year for the 4T65 in the H-body? It sounds like a failing PCS. Maybe a dogbone.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:16 pm 
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Nope, 98 in the L36 cars. The 97 L67's got the 4T65E-HD.

EDIT: APN makes the Upper Intake with the steel sleve in the EGR stovepipe. GM makes the Aluminum gaskets.

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Last edited by 00Beast on Wed Sep 30, 2009 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 12:03 am 
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So you went ahead and bought a 275,000 mile car, with an original transmission and unknown intake gasket history?

My trans wasn't far from catastrauphic failure when it was torn down. And it drove into the shop "perfectly fine".

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:42 am 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:14 pm
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Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 97.2 40th SLE
68 w/400
94 SSEi
How do I see if the pcs or dogbone are bad?

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1997.2 40th SLE-138k
1968 Bonneville 400ci w/TH-400-40k
1999 GMC Suburban SLT-191k
2005 Escalade 253k-GINA


nos4blood70 wrote:
Literally, cars are drugs.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:07 am 
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I wouldn't immediately jump to consclusions that it's the transmission. What's the history on the ignition components? Old/bad plugs and wires can give you the same response.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:39 am 
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I agree with Mark. Go over this list with the car, and it will help eliminate some possibilities.

Also check the coils with the guide in Techinfo: viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1683

    1987-2005 Bonneville / Buick 3800 Maintenance List

    Run Seafoam through gasoline and intake every 5,000 miles. One pint of Seafoam in a half tank of fuel is a good mix. The intake is optional, but recommended.

    Grease: Ball Joints, Tie Rods Every 8-10k ( Green Grease recommended)
    Air Filter Every 15k (Amsoil EaA, Purolator PureONE)
    PCV Valve Every 30k
    MAF Sensor Element Cleaning/TB Cleaning Every 50k viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1661
    Fuel Filter Every 15-25k (Purolator, AC Delco, WIX)
    Spark Plugs Every 30-50k (NGK TR55 or Autolite 605) (Never Bosch)
    Ignition Wires Every 30-50k (Napa Belden, AC Delco, Autolite Pro, NGK) (Never Taylor or Bosch)
    Oil & Filter Every 5-6k or Every 6 months (Mobil1 or Amsoil)(Mobil1, Purolator PureONE, Amsoil EaO or WIX) (Never Fram) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=214
    *Conventional Oil Every 3k/3 months(Pennzoil with a WIX (Napa), Delco or Purolator filter)
    Transmission Flush Every 15-20k (Always make sure filter is changed when flushed)
    Cooling System Flush Every 25-50k or 3-5 Years (Peak or Prestone Green Coolant Only) (Never Dexcool)
    Oxygen Sensor Every 80-100k (30k for non-heated) (AC Delco or Denso) (Absolutely never Bosch) viewtopic.php?f=48&t=794
    Accessory Belt Inspect every 15k, replace every 100k, or as needed
    Cabin Air Filter Inspect and Replace every 15k, or as needed in dusty conditions. (Note: 00+ Only)
    Evap Core Cleaning Whenever Needed (Note: 99 and older only) viewtopic.php?f=45&t=2432

    *Special Considerations*
    All 3800s, LG3, LN3, L27, L36, L26, L67 & L32, especially important on vehicles factory installed with orange Havoline Dexcool Antifreeze/Coolant: http://www.dex-cool.net/
    Lower Intake Manifold Gasket Replacement, every 80-100k (ignorance of this can allow coolant to enter your engine oil, this happening can cause irreversible lower engine damage, requiring replacement of subject engine)

    Series II, Naturally Aspirated, RPO:L36:
    Upper Intake Manifold Plenum Replacement, Every 80-100k (ignorance of this can allow coolant to enter your intake manifold, possible damage to occur can be hydrolock, irreversible damage to emissions devices, misfires, etc. Most times, engine replacement is required if ignored long enough.) viewtopic.php?f=53&t=1061

    Series I, II, III RPO Code L67 & L32:
    Change Supercharger Oil; Every 30-50k. (Intense Racing or GM Dealer) viewtopic.php?f=56&t=1690
    Supercharger Belt; Inspect Every 15k, Replace Every 100k or as needed.

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Sirius wrote:
Think about it. You’re tooling down the road in your Prius, knowing full-well that this thing being green is as big a sham as federally mandated ethanol-enriched gas, Russia pulling out of Ukraine, and Obamacare.


Last edited by 00Beast on Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:56 pm 
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Location: Racine, Wisconsin
Year and Trim: 97.2 40th SLE
68 w/400
94 SSEi
Well it runs and drives superb exept for when you give it a little to much gas from a stop. Also I cant tell where the tranny is leaking havent leak to see if it is from gasket or lines or what.

I really dont want to sink $200+ dollars into a $700 car if the tranny and or motor are going to take a crap. I was thinking that if one of them goes I will just find a junker with good drivetrain out and pull it and replace one at a time on my car or maybe do the whole thing and sell the extras? IDK

Should I just do the intake gaskets swap out the dex for yellow and change the tranny fluid pan and gasket
Intake on the 96 cost about $250 but this a little more including spark plugs, wires, oil, oil, filter, coolant etc so probably about $150-$190 to do the intake gaskets and valve cover gaskets. And do do all the tranny stuff costed $35
I guess $300 bucks is good insurance to keep the car going but with 272k and going how much longer will it keep going?
I dont know what to do? So far there are no signs that the gaskets are leaking coolant is not gunky or oily oil looks good not losing oil or coolant and not leaking anywhere that I know of

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1997.2 40th SLE-138k
1968 Bonneville 400ci w/TH-400-40k
1999 GMC Suburban SLT-191k
2005 Escalade 253k-GINA


nos4blood70 wrote:
Literally, cars are drugs.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:21 am 
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Year and Trim: (RIP 10/31/15) 1997 SE
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94SilverSSEi wrote:
I really dont want to sink $200+ dollars into a $700 car if the tranny and or motor are going to take a crap.


All cars require maintenance. It doesn't matter if you paid $700 or $70,000 for the car, either one will still require maintenance. It makes no sense to let the buying price of the car determine whether or not you'll spend a reasonable amount of money on repairs. If that were the case, then you should have never bought the car to begin with. In short, you should be prepared to make necessary repairs on ANY car that you deemed worth buying and keeping, regardless of how little you paid to get the car.

It sounds like at this point you don't have any solid info on whether the tranny or motor are going to keel over and die on you or not, but you say when it's running it drives superb, so why not just presume they will last and spend a reasonable amount on intelligent repairs?

For your bucking on giving it gas from a stop, give it a set of $40 Napa/Belden plug wires and some plugs like stocker AC Delcos. Test the coils as previously suggested. Even if that doesn't fix the bucking, you'll know it isn't that, and you won't be driving on 275K plugs and wires. If that doesn't fix it, pull the throttle body and scrub the bejeezus out of it with carb cleaner. If that doesn't help, we'll look at some other things.

How bad is the tranny leaking? You can just jack up the front end and take a look to get a better idea where it's leaking and how bad. Mine needed a new pan gasket during regular maintenance tranny filter change and flush. If the side pan is leaking, check the torque on the bolts, but otherwise that's a larger job to regasket, and it may be worth just waiting for the tranny to let go.

94SilverSSEi wrote:
Should I just do the intake gaskets swap out the dex for yellow and change the tranny fluid pan and gasket? Intake on the 96 cost about $250 but this a little more including spark plugs, wires, oil, oil, filter, coolant etc so probably about $150-$190 to do the intake gaskets and valve cover gaskets.
All cars need oil changes, and with your mileage the spark plugs and wires are worth doing as regular maintenance too. Use those opportunities to get an idea of the condition of your intake. Check the oil for any signs of coolant contamination when you change it. Check the spark plugs for any signs of cylinder fouling. If the oil and plugs check out, I say just do the oil & filter change, plugs and wires, and tranny flush and filter, and get an idea on the tranny's health by what you find in the trans pan and filter.

If those all check out without indicating signs of trans breakdown or any oil or cylinder fouling, I'd let the Dex and intake gaskets go for a month or two while you focus on troubleshooting your bucking problem. If any of these solutions happen to fix it, and after oil change and tranny flush & filter, & plugs and wires, the car is running fine, then I'd plan the intake gasket job and Dex change for a month or so, or whenever you have the free time.

Inspect your upper intake manifold and see if you can get the make ID and date on it, so you can tell if it's original or if it has been replaced. Other people here can show you where to look, but the codes are molded into the plastic plenum's exterior. That can give you an idea if your intake's gaskets have ever been re-done before. It is entirely possible that it's been re-done and refilled with Dex, that's what my dealership did -twice. If you find that your gaskets have been redone, you may be able to get away with just flushing out the Dex and refilling with Prestone "mixes with any" green.

All together, NONE of these are terribly costly, and in the larger picture, things like an oil and filter change, trans flush filter & gasket, cooling system flush and fill, and spark plugs and wires are ALL regular maintenance items that you'd replace on ANY car as regular maintenance. So none of this is really a special expenditure for your $700 car, with the exception of the intake gaskets if you need them.

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R.I.P. 10/31/15: 1997 SE: "Silver Shadow"
`05 Mercedes S500


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