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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Hi,
I'm stranded in Indianapolis. Security light blinking, car cranks, is getting spark, but no fuel. New fuel pump, fuel filter good. Quick help appreciated.

Larry


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:30 pm 
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Fuel pump relay? Maybe... I'm sure others will chime in too.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:19 pm 
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Hm. I forget what it does when VATS fails, but it sounds like that...

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:14 pm 
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Depending on the year, VATS disable can kill a starter and fuel pump, or sometimes depending on the year, can just kill the fuel pump.

A continuously blinking security light indicates that VATS is not reading any resistance on the key. In some cases, you can clean the contacts, but usually the prime offender is broken wires in the ignition column, and the easiest fix is a VATS Passkey bypass: http://vats.likeabigdog.com/

A security light that blinks a few times and goes out indicates proper operation of the system, and is usually not the culprit.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:59 am 
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The VATS module can fail in two spots...the first is the portion that matches the key resistance to the value it has stored. The second is the relay on the inside of it that closes to allow the starter to crank.

Even if it isn't working correcting, the PCM will still command start prime for 2 seconds or so when you turn the key to "run". That said, if your car gets both the prime signal and is allowed to crank, your key and ignition reader are fine, since the starter will not engage if there is an issue with the key.

Most likely issue is the chip in the VATS module that gives the "ok" signal to the PCM to keep the fuel pump turned on. This is becoming more of an issue the older these cars get, but there's a way around it. Several really, depending on how fast you want this car up and running.

First and simplest is to send in your PROM and have the values changed in it to ignore what the VATS module is or isn't saying. The second is quicker but not as easy if you are not skilled in electronics...you take the fuel pump relay and instead of using the PCM as its turn-on trigger you wire it into a "hot on crank and run" circuit instead. The only issue with this is the pump will not turn off if the engine stalls...the ignition must be turned off to stop the flow of fuel.

Both instances above only tackle the fueling aspect. If a VATS module fails on the crank portion of the system, there is a yellow/black wire coming off of the neutral safety switch that must be grounded in order for cranking to occur. Doing both the fuel and crank bypasses will take VATS totally out of the equation and you'll never have to worry about it again.

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BonneMe wrote:
Looks like a Volt, Sonata, and Taurus got it on.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 8:43 am 
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Thanks for all the input. The dealer says it's the fuel pump, which surprised me because I just had it replaced at a dealer in late march. But, they said they ran power directly to it, and it would not run. Hopefully this will be covered by the warrantee, which I believe is 12 months/12,000 miles.

The security system checked out just fine. The guy that was helping me try to diagnose it Sunday works on home security systems. Maybe a classic case of "when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail".


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 5:51 pm 
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Two tiny orange wires, a fist full of resistors, ohm meter, the VATS table on google (or even here in the forum IIRC) and about one 1 hr and you'll be off to the races. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:37 pm 
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Yeah. That only works if the module is working. Ask me how I know :btruestory:

I'll elaborate...the key bypass works if the key portion of the system...the pellet or the contacts in the ignition switch...is inop. It also works for remote start applications. BUT, it assumes that the actual VATS module is in good working order. If that module isn't, the key bypass will have no effect at all.

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BonneMe wrote:
Looks like a Volt, Sonata, and Taurus got it on.


Last edited by sandrock on Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:44 pm 
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sandrock wrote:
Yeah. That only works if the module is working. Ask me how I know :btruestory:

I'll elaborate...the key bypass works if the key portion of the system...the pellet or the contacts in the ignition switch...is inop. It also works for remote start applications. BUT, it assumes that the actual VATS module is in good working order. If that module isn't, the key bypass will have no effect at all.



True, in my experiences though, always had the key side of things inop....Never the module itself.

I had to do this on Olblueeyebonne's car at a Bonnefest in Illinois one year.....Nothin like spending the day in the not so good part of town doing your first vats bypass lol.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:48 pm 
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Mine failed hard...would not allow the starter to operate, and the security light stayed on. I already had the fuel bypass programmed into the PCM through HP Tuners, so I knew it had to be the starter circuit portion of the VATS. Opened the prints, traced it all down, snipped a wire and grounded it, and voila! it fired right up!

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2000 SSEi - Resurrection in progress. Built L67 w/L32 fuel rail, ported heads, and cam. Camaro front brake system, GXP cluster, and much more in planning.

BonneMe wrote:
Looks like a Volt, Sonata, and Taurus got it on.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:51 pm 
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Interesting...I'll have to remember that.....Like I said, not something I ever heard of let alone experienced.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:33 am 
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The dealer called and said the old fuel pump was fine, and the problem was with a wire in the steering column ignition lock cylinder.

It's all fixed, and I made it home last night.

Thanks for all the help.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:58 am 
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Wouldn't be a bad idea to bypass the VATS at some point though before it leaves you up *shoot* creek. Much rather do it at home vs in a lonely red light district wrong side of town late at night scenario lol.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:50 pm 
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Larry Larson wrote:
The dealer called and said the old fuel pump was fine, and the problem was with a wire in the steering column ignition lock cylinder.


That's what we said was wrong: VATS. The flashing security light is pretty definite. Replacement lock cylinder and wiring, opening the steering column; had to be expensive.

Bet the dealer didn't do the test for working fuel pump correctly... Did he drop the tank before he found it was a good pump?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:59 pm 
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Some dealers will just bypass the VATS vs replacing the parts...They can do it in a fraction of the time vs the time on R&R the key cylinder and wiring......

It's kinda how some mechanics make their do ray mei

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:47 am 
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Car is being towed to the dealer right now. It would not start yesterday. Let's see what they find this time...


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:10 am 
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Larry Larson wrote:
Car is being towed to the dealer right now. It would not start yesterday. Let's see what they find this time...


Did the dealer repairing the VATS give you different keys for new lock cylinder and wires? Or did you just repair the wires?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:11 am 
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yes, 2 new keys.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Dealer says fuel pump is bad. He said I was lucky I didn't have a fire because the connector was melted. I had the fuel pump replaced in march, so it will be covered under warranty.


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