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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 2:40 am 
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Anyone know why 5 of the water passage ways in the head gaskets are pencil size and about the size of my thumb in the heads and block? - Thanks!

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:39 am 
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My older small-block Chevy head gaskets are the same--I was told it was to restrict coolant flow. Didn't sound right to me either, but all is OK.

Too much water flow from block to heads=a bad thing? You would think that one would want to flow as much coolant as possible. Perhaps it's like the thermostat thing--too much flow=not enough time in the radiator for cooling?

Maybe someone can explain further?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:10 am 
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They basically act as orifices to restrict the flow and allow equal flow and cooling of the whole head.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:59 am 
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Why are you replacing the head gaskets? That's an extremely rare job on these cars. They simply don't blow except under extreme abuse, and we haven't even seen that.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:41 am 
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Could be a complete rebuild, can't tell from the original post.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 9:59 am 
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Well, thanks for the insight. The car does not run warm until the ambient temp is over 80, at 88 it over heats in a hurry. I've been running w/o a thermostat for a while in the hopes that was the problem. They are easy to yank, so it's the first to go. The car has 263+K miles on it. The engine was running warm, even with the thermostat out and I was loosing coolant. When we pulled the heads 8/09, the only place the head gaskets weren't leaking was the cylinders.

I'm picking up a plunger type mic to measure the runout on the cylinder walls this AM. The #3 and #5 cylinders are running hot. I can tell by the way the cylinder heads & plugs look on the inside. I guess my dream of 500K miles on this set of rings is in serious jeopardy.

Any more information would be greatly appreciated. The dealer sez the head gaskets are disco'd. The first 3 complete set of gaskets from Fel-Pro back in 7/09 were for an LS1, but labeled 3.8L. The parts store didn't believe it until I had them open their factory sealed sets they had & we all had a good laugh at the LS1 sets in the 3.8 cartons.

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In Memory of Brad - 1/21/1977 .. 10/23/2013 ...... Aaron - 1977 .. 2017 .....
2017 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport ..... 1992 Bonneville SSE 1SB 170 HP L27 4T60E retired/sold to MattStrike ..... 2005 Bonneville SE 1SC 205 HP L36 4T65E - retired/salvage yard ..... PBCF user 2321


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:03 am 
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GM doesn't have them.... But any parts store will be able to get the Fel-Pro head gaskets...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:16 am 
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Fel-Pro is what we put on 8/09. I was hoping the gaskets were manufactured incorrectly, but it appears they were made correctly. I wanted a set of GM gaskets to compare just to be sure.

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2017 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport ..... 1992 Bonneville SSE 1SB 170 HP L27 4T60E retired/sold to MattStrike ..... 2005 Bonneville SE 1SC 205 HP L36 4T65E - retired/salvage yard ..... PBCF user 2321


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:10 am 
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Location: Aguanga, CA USA
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Did you check the block deck for flatness/low spots? Were the heads checked for flatness or re-surfaced? If it got quite hot a few times, there may be a warping issue. Also, proper head bolt tightening sequence and torque are important. Were the head bolts and threads in the block cleaned up? Don't know if the head bolts can "stretch", but a new set of bolts may be in order. I also would lube the head bolt threads and "washer" contact area with a little oil to keep the torque readings honest.

These are the general rules I use when doing a head gasket job. I haven't done my 94's head gaskets yet, but I assume the same "rules" would apply. Maybe someone with more experience on 3800's can confirm/deny/add to my suggestions?


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:35 am 
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Yes, thanks for the question, and a very good one. One of the reasons the heads were pulled 6/09 was to have the valves ground, besides the engine running warm. The heads were resurfaced when the valves were ground and we checked the heads when they came back and checked the block to see if they were warped. The UIM & LIM were both warped. We had them resurfaced also. We reused the head bolts as the GM/Helms manual sez it's ok, but after reading posts on the net, it isn't a good idea to reuse them. After the work was finished 7/09, we drove the car 350 mile on the interstate and it got 28.8 mpg, the best it ever has. We've put 20K miles on it since the valve job.

The cylinder mic came in this PM. The GM/Helms manual sez the cylinder bore is 3.8" with a maximum bore due to wear of 3.813". The largest bore currently is 3.817". Surprisingly the #1 cylinder is not tapered much and is almost perfectly round. Looks like it's rebuild time with a couple of the cylinders being out of max spec by .004". I shouldn't be too unhappy. The engine has 263K miles on it. I guess I really don't get it as it doesn't use much oil between changes, or I expect too much.

If we rebuild or put the engine back together, we will use your suggestions. I read there are washers to go under the head bolts and may use them too. Thanks!

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In Memory of Brad - 1/21/1977 .. 10/23/2013 ...... Aaron - 1977 .. 2017 .....
2017 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport ..... 1992 Bonneville SSE 1SB 170 HP L27 4T60E retired/sold to MattStrike ..... 2005 Bonneville SE 1SC 205 HP L36 4T65E - retired/salvage yard ..... PBCF user 2321


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 1:41 am 
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The head bolts are torque-to-yield one time use only. Replacing them was a wise choice.

Most 3800's only require a simple honing job at 200k. Factory honing marks are still visible (quite typical) at well over 100k.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:11 am 
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Location: Aguanga, CA USA
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Why do the factory honing marks last so long on these 3800 blocks? I have seen factory honing marks on cylinder walls in some older original (late 60's-early 70's) Buick V8 blocks, as well as older AMC and Cadillac V8's from the same era with LOTS of miles. I was told that these were "high-nickel-content" blocks. Is this the case with the 3800's?

If this IS the case, then GM used proven metalurgy for the later 3800 blocks!

I have a 74 AMC Matador Coupe 304 with 250k (never even had the heads pulled!) and a rod knock. Actually locked-up now. It ran until it locked up, no smoke. It will be interesting to see what the cylinder walls look like when I take it apart!

Sorry to get not only off-topic, but off-brand.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:29 am 
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I think the honing marks have more to do with the Piston & Piston Ring technology.... The 3800 line of engines were some of the lowest friction engines produced... You will seldom find a 3800 block that doesn't still have the honing marks in the cylinder bore..


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 11:07 pm 
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It's been 3 weeks & 850 miles since we got the engine back together and no problems yet. Looks like it was a combination of several things. 1) Reused head bolts. The old ones were 2 1/2 threads longer than the new ones. >>>---GM/Helms sez it's okay, but it ain't!---<<< 2) Intake Manifold bolts, upper and lower. Had to buy flange bolts as none in sufficient quantity were available from GM. Flange bolts (Grade 8 -English & 10.6 metric) were cheaper too. Strange as the uppers were metric and the lowers were English (standard). We used aircraft grade "gasket maker" between the upper and lower the first time and it didn't seem to work. We used it the second time too, but used a different torque sequence. There is no gasket made to go between the UIM & LIM on no-supercharged manifolds, only 2 "O" rings. I'll let you know in a year if it's still working ok. lol

Thanks to everyone for the help.

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In Memory of Brad - 1/21/1977 .. 10/23/2013 ...... Aaron - 1977 .. 2017 .....
2017 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport ..... 1992 Bonneville SSE 1SB 170 HP L27 4T60E retired/sold to MattStrike ..... 2005 Bonneville SE 1SC 205 HP L36 4T65E - retired/salvage yard ..... PBCF user 2321


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