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No power windows or power doorlocks?
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Author:  y2kssei [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  No power windows or power doorlocks?
A few days ago all my passenger power windows and doorlocks stoped working. The only power door lock or power window that works is the driver side door. If someone has any idea on what could cause this please step in. Thanks!
Author:  GoldenBullet [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
did you check all fuses?
Author:  y2kssei [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 5:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
Yup
Author:  ddalder [ Sat Apr 18, 2009 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
Could be a couple of problems. The door modules all connect via a simple bus. That allows the door modules to talk with each other. At the same time, the driver door module (DDM) acts as a gateway between the door subsystem and the rest of the vehicle. Your problem could be a bad driver door module, or a bad connection between the DDM and the other modules. I'm at work right now and don't have access to schematics so I can't get into a lot of specifics.

Basically, all the modules have power to them, even when the ignition is off. What allows or disallows a window to change position is a sequence of events. When someone presses the window switch (lets assume in a position other than the driver door), that door module communicates with the DDM via the simple bus. The DDM checks the current power mode of the car via the Class 2 data bus. If through the DDM determines the power mode to be either ON, ACCY or RAP (Retained Accessory Power), it will return a command allowing the module in question to either roll up or down the window (assuming the power window lockout is set accordingly). This same scheme works for the driver window controls as well.

So... there are quite a few different factors here. My guess is that since 3 doors quit all at once, the problem is somewhere between the DDM and other modules. If the DDM wasn't functioning, at least to some extent, you would have no action there. Since it is, it's indicative that you at least have intact communication between the DDM and the rest of the car.

There have been reported problems of corroded wiring under the driver seat, at one of the large connectors from the seat to the body harness. If you've checked all your fuses (and there will be multiple ones), this may be a good next step. Failing this, there are other steps to follow. Some of these problems become a little more difficult without the aid of a scan tool. We'll see what we can do though :wink:

One last question... Am I correct in assuming that your driver door controls do NOT operate the other doors, or is it just that the other doors don't operate their respective windows?
Author:  y2kssei [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
Your correct, the driver door controls do not operate the other doors. I also noticed that vehicle data display does not recognize a door ajar when I open any of the passenger doors. I haven't had time to check the wiring under the driver seat but I'll get to that asap.
Author:  ddalder [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
It's sounding suspiciously like the DDM has lost communication with the other door modules. Like I say, I've heard of corrosion problems before that had a similar effect. There are many places where the interruption may be (if this is what it turns out to be), but I generally suggest checking places where we know people have seen problems before. Water and moisture collection under the carpet of the 2K+ is very common.

Once you post your findings we can go further. If needed, do you have and know how to use a multimeter?
Author:  y2kssei [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
I have some experience using a multimeter but I don't own one. Do you know of any decent multimeters at a reasonable price?
Author:  00Beast [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
Any local parts or hardware store should have them for relatively cheap. (Under $20 for a pretty nice one)
Author:  ddalder [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 5:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
00Beast wrote:
Any local parts or hardware store should have them for relatively cheap. (Under $20 for a pretty nice one)

Like Ed mentioned, anything at a reasonable price is good. All you really need at this point is to be able to test DC voltage and resistance. I wouldn't run out and get one just yet, why don't we wait and see where things lead. I'm glad you have some experience using one though. This always makes things a lot easier.
Author:  y2kssei [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
I checked all of the connectors under the driver seat and found nothing unusual. I did notice that the carpeting behind the drivers seat is kinda moist.
Author:  ddalder [ Sun Apr 19, 2009 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
When I get home from work later I'll pull up the schematics and give you some more specfic areas to check, probably later this afternoon sometime.
Author:  ddalder [ Mon Apr 20, 2009 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
First, double check the following fuses. They are all located under the rear seat in the fuse block.

DRVMDL – 10 Amp
PASSMDL – 10 Amp
LRDRMDL – 10 Amp
RRDRMDL – 10 Amp
There is only one circuit breaker for all four doors. Since the driver window works, we can assume this breaker is fine. For reference it is labelled PWRWDO and is 30 Amps.

Once this is done, you should disconnect the battery for the remaining checks just to be on the safe side.

Here is some information about how the four door modules interconnect.

As mentioned, the DDM (Driver Door Module) is the gateway between the door subsystem and the rest of the car via the Class 2 data bus. The four door modules interconnect by way of a simple bus. This is a single 22 AWG wire that is TAN/WHT (tan with a white stripe).

At the DDM, this connects to Pin A4 of Connector C1 (16 Cavity Connector)
At the PDM, this connects to Pin 15 of Connector C1 (20 Cavity Connector)
At the LRDM, this connects to Pin G of Connector C1 (12 Cavity Connector)
At the RRDM, this connects to Pin G of Connector C1 (12 Cavity Connector)

When using the reference above, note that each connector on each module has a different number of cavities. This will help you to identify the right connector.

There is a point where all four simple bus interface wires splice together. This is a point called S302. This splice point is located:

In the main body harness, left side of the vehicle, 14.5cm (5.7”) from the left power seat breakout.

The “breakout” is where the wiring splits off the main harness to go to the main connector where the seat plugs in. The manual doesn’t say whether the splice is fore or aft of the breakout.

Since none of the three passenger doors work, here’s what I’m thinking. My guess is that if the problem is with a broken connection in the simple bus, it will likely be between the DDM and S302 since this is the common point for all modules to connect at and none of the passenger doors work.

Examine the connector in the door jamb at the driver door. In your model year, the connector is clipped into the body right underneath the rubber boot between the door and the car. Try to pull this out and have a look for any corrosion or broken wiring. I would actually unplug the connectors to get a look at the condition of the terminals as well. The simple bus wire (TAN/WHT) runs through cavity ‘D’ of this connector (C500). If everything looks good, pull the driver door panel off. Unplug connector C1 from the DDM and measure the continuity with an ohm meter between pin A4 and pin G of the connector in the door jamb. If there is no continuity, the problem is in the door wiring harness. Also examine the connector on the harness and the DDM closely for any signs of corrosion. We had pins corroding on another member’s 2000 SSEi at the door modules.

Before actually pulling the seat and taking up the carpet (again), the next check I would make is at the LRDM. Pull the left rear door panel off. Unplug connector C1 and measure the continuity between Pin ‘G’ of this connector and Pin A4 of connector C1 on the DDM. Be sure to plug the door jamb connector back together first! Your meter leads should be long enough to reach in most cases. If you have continuity, we need to start looking for another problem. If you don’t have continuity you will need to pull the driver seat and try to find S302. Since you did find moisture under there, and this is a splice location, your problem may be there. You will need to unwrap part of the harness to find and investigate this.

Please check these things. Post back what you find. If you have any questions about the procedure, please post them and I’ll try to answer as quickly as possible.

Since you found moisture under the driver seat, you may also want to have a look here:

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=11064

Hope this helps :wink:
Author:  y2kssei [ Sat May 02, 2009 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
Today, I finally got around to buying a digital multimeter. The connector in the door jamb had no corrosion. I pulled the driver door panel off and checked for continuity between pin A4 and pin G, I got a reading of .5 ohms. Then I pulled the left rear door panel off and tested for continuity between pin G on the LRDM and pin A4 on the DDM. The reading would bounce up to 50 ohms then switch to over load. I haven't pulled the driver seat yet but I suspect the problem is in that area. If you have other useful information or diagrams please chime in.
Author:  ddalder [ Sat May 02, 2009 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
I don't have a diagram immediately handy, but the information in my post above will help you to locate the splice. You should have four wires (wrapped up in the body harness) that meet. All are TAN/WHT. A diagram won't help much because they don't show the location of splices or connectors. The FSM only describes in text (provided above) as to where you should look for these.

It's really going to be a case of pulling the seat and unwrapping a little of the body harness.
Author:  MIDEVOL [ Sat May 02, 2009 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
Its kinda funny that I found this today. As of a few days ago the control panel on my drivers side door stopped working. I cant lock/unlock my doors, lowers windows on any of the doors, or even switch between driver 1 & 2. Also I noticed that sometimes the window lock button will stay illuminated and sometimes it wont. Could it be the problem is in the Driver door module? All my other windows roll down fine with their own respective switches. Also, the passenger door lock/unlock button works fine. :?:
Author:  ddalder [ Sun May 03, 2009 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
It's very possible that the DDM is the fault (although I have some other thoughts on this as well). I suspect that the fuse is good because of what you're describing, however as a formality did you check it? The fuse will be in the rear fuse block underneath the rear seat cushion. It's labelled DRVMDL and should be 10A.

Since your other doors work fine, and each door derives power seperately from the rear fuse block, there is no need to check those.

What makes me think the DDM module fuse is good is the backlighting for the lock switch does work (at least some of the time). Unlike all the other backlighting in the car, the backlit door controls (driver and front passenger side) are controlled by each door module respectively. If the module didn't have power, neither would the backlightlighting.

I would pull the door panel, visually inspect the module and ensure all connectors are firmly seated. You may want to see if moisture has been a problem. I've seen some door modules with corroded connectors. The only way to check this would be to pull each connector out and look at both the connector and the terminals in the module (most easily done if you remove the module by taking off the two 10mm nuts holding the module to the door). Don't worry about disconnecting them all at once. They are set-up so each can only be plugged into the correct cavity. There is no way to reconnect it incorrectly.

I worked on one 2000 SSEi that had a kinked main power wire between the door module and the connector in the door jamb. It was part of the door wiring harness. Over time, the wire had corroded where it was pinched and there wasn't enough conductor remaining that adequate current could be supplied to roll up/down the window. Yet, when measured, there was +12VDC at the door module.

The fix in this case was to splice in a segment of 10 AWG wire to replace the bad section in the wiring harness. Everything was fine after that. If the problem is the DDM, the best way to troubleshoot would be to use a Tech 2. Failing this, the next alternative would be to try and get a replacement DDM from a wrecker and swap them out. Only problem here is the cost should the module not be at fault.

My understanding of how the door subsystem works is that for the other three to be able to roll the windows up/down, it needs to check system status with/via the DDM. For example, the DDM will permit or disallow based on the window lockout switch. Also, if the car is not in the correct power mode (ie: key position) the DDM will not "give permission" for the modules to roll up/down the windows. You may have a situation where enough current can be supplied for the DDM logic circuitry to operate, but not actuate the lock solenoid or window motor. This could also explain the behaviour.

I'd be curious to know if all your other doors work if you were to disconnect the connectors from the DDM?
Author:  y2kssei [ Sun May 03, 2009 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
I found a puddel under the driverside carpeting, I cleaned most of it up with a shop vac. Any suggestions on what type of sealent to use and where to use it?

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Author:  ddalder [ Sun May 03, 2009 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
As for the leaks, it's unlikely the are originating in the floor. Here are a couple of threads you need to review in order to locate and correct the source:

This relates to ALL 2000+ Bonnevilles:
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=11470

If you have a sunroof, you also need to look here:
viewtopic.php?f=43&t=1688

Leaks from either of these sources will result in a water collection on the floor (under the carpet) in the front, rear or both.
Author:  y2kssei [ Sun May 03, 2009 2:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
I found where the leak was coming from. When I applied the water to the left rear section of the sunroof, the water would flow out of the plastic trim section right below the e-brake. Whats the easiest way to fix this without tearing everything apart?

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Author:  ddalder [ Sun May 03, 2009 4:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: No power windows or power doorlocks?
I don't know that there is an easy way. These drain lines are fairly well concealed so you've definitely got a bit of work ahead. Read through the Tech Info article carefully and you'll get the best advice there. I've never done this repair myself because its never been an issue for me. You really should check your doors as well. Every single Bonneville I've worked on to date has had leaks there too. The sunroof sounds to be your biggest problem, but if you're attacking these problems you may as well cover all your bases.
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