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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:45 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
I recently successfully launched my latest engine into production and have found that I finally have some time to work on the '96. Up to this point, I have completed updating the body and interior to the SSE trim. I have also installed the factory HUD, reupholstered AL7 seats, and lowered the car 2.5 inches.

This spring is all about power this time. The plan is ambitious and will probably have allot of scope creep, but should not be a problem. The rough plan is to replace the 4T60 with a 4T65, Swap the agging L36 with a superchagered engine, and build/ install a true-dual exhaust system.

Engine Plan:

Short Block
3800S2 bored to 3.82 Diamond finished on Rottler HP7A
Winberg 3.55 Stroke crankshaft
Carrillo Connecting Rods
Trend Coated Wirst Pins
Diamond Billet Pistons w/ Calico Dome and Skirt coating
Total Seal .043 .043 2mm Ring Pack
Jesel S7 Tool Steel Cam Core Ground by CompCams

Cylinder Heads
Aluminum CNC ported
1.95 1.58 intake exhaust Victory Titanium vavles DLC coated both with 7mm stems
Victory titanium retainers and locks
Pac valve springs
Rocker arms TBD maybe Jesel steel

Induction
Eaton Gen 5, ported
Northstar throttle body
LQ4 MAF
Ported lower intake, I was able to get a raw casting for this....
MAHLE/BEHR heat exhanger w/ custom intercooler. In process....

Misc engine
Meziere water pump
2000+ FEAD
converting coolant system over to full deareation type
1.25 wide radiator
Switching to 1998ish PCM architecture
EGR deleted

Transmission
4t65 to HD conversion
3.29 gears
Torsen diff maybe?
GMR input shaft
GMR Pump Shaft
4140-V Outputshaft

Exhaust
1.625-1.75-1.88 stepped headers, 2.75 merged collector
Duel exhaust systems from headers back
X-Pipe
Twin magnaflow mufflers


More to come

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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


Last edited by Speedster400 on Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:32 am 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 17021
Location: Central Illinois
Year and Trim: 1992 SSE
2009 G8 GT
Oh my...

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WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers and 10" Subs, 1300 watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
This weekend was a very productive weekend. I was able to get the block bored, decked, finish honed, align hone, and the cam tunnel bored slightly over.
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Pistons also showed up this past week. Some of the changes that i have made are the thinner Ring pack, reduced wrist pin diameter and width. I also got the pins DLC coated as well.
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I was going to original put in bronze lifter bushings, but after looking at lifter bosses, I determined that there was just not enough cast material to work with. The cam core is done from Jesel and is being drop shipped to Comp on monday. Dean said It should be ground by wednesday and I should have it for the weekend. That said, I am hoping to have the short block assembled this weekend.

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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 10:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
While waiting on parts to arrive this week. I worked on building a new battery tray. Originally I had intended on using the factory one. However, the sheet metal was too far gone to save. Plus I may need the space for the new deaeration and intercooler reservoir. So I moved it to the back.
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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:51 am 
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 7:01 pm
Posts: 17021
Location: Central Illinois
Year and Trim: 1992 SSE
2009 G8 GT
I like it! What kind of power do you think it'll make?

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WHITE WHINE - 1992 SSE Supercharged 236.26 ci (.040 Over) 15.090 at 90.2 MPH on old engine w/ slipping trans & melted O2 sensor - Gen 3 M62 and matching TB, Gen 2 Pully, Zillamotorsports Ported LIM, YT 1.72 Roller Rockers, SII FPR & Injectors, Hypertech Thermomaster chip w/ 160 Thermo, TransGo Shift Kit, Infinity/Pioneer Speakers and 10" Subs, 1300 watts, 140 amp Alternator, Ricepipe CAI w/ heatshield, Pilot Angel Eye Foglights, Clear Corners, '02 17" Chrome Bent 5's, Magnaflow F-Body Muffler and Hi-flo Cat, Ceramic Coated Ported Exhaust Manifolds, Fan Override
2009 G8 GT - Sport Red Metallic, loaded, SOLO Axlebacks, Rotofab Intake, Tuned, autodim mirror, removed intake manifold cover, HSV GTS triple gauge pod, two tone red-hot shifter and HSV SuperSport steering wheel, GXP rear sway bar and diffuser, 3.45 diff and various Camaro suspension bits, LED Taillights


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
J Wikoff wrote:
I like it! What kind of power do you think it'll make?


I plugged the engine into the simulator at work and came back with 433 hp @7500 RPM and 371 lbs-ft @5500 RPM at the flywheel. I am still debating if I want to got the alcohol route. I'll find out when I get it on the dyno soon.

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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 8:56 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
Cylinder Heads Showed up on Friday. They are aluminum and they were CNC ported. The seats have been replaced with Copper-Beryllium, and I am using Victory Forged Titanium Valve. Full DLC coated. Valves came in slightly smaller then originally estimated at 1.91 intake and 1.58 exhaust.
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Unfortunatly, I am missing a few key parts yet and was not able to get the head on the completed short block this weekend. So onto wiring for this while I am waiting of the parts

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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
Wiring, wiring, wiring. Putting a '98 PCM into 1996 architecture initial seemed to be the biggest hurdle to making this project happen. However, after looking into this, I found this is actually pretty easy. There a few key differences that should be pointed out.
1. The transmission receives ignition power differently in 96 versus 98
2. In 96, the fuel level sender sends the signal directly to the cluster IF you have the U50 or U2F IP. If you have the UB3 or U2E IP the signal path is a little more complicated.
3. Adding performance shift.

Transmission Power Fix
On 98 engine harness, the stock location for ignition power to the transmission is A3 on the C101. On the chassis side in 1996, this is located at H2. So to simple fix this, the pin on the 98 engine harness was moved to H2.

Fuel Gauge Fix
My ’96 was originally equipped with the UB3. However I switch the chassis harness out when I put in the factory HUD, this also included making the swap to the U50 IP at this time. On critical difference in the 96 fuel sender vs the 98 sender is that the resistance values are different. I feared that the may cause and issue with how the IP registered the fuel level. In a sense we got lucky here too. In 1998 the fuel level signal is sent to the PCM first and then double backed to the IP for indicated level. However, if you maintain the 96 fuel sender and a 96 U50 or U2F IP you can keep the wiring as is and the gauge will function as normal.

Performance shift
It is interesting to note that the EE decided to use the same harness on all cars that had the center counsel. That is, the harness that ran from the performance shift/ traction control/ ride selection buttons to the C200 connector under the dash. It would have been even better if the counsel electrical engineer talked to the IP electrical engineer because it would have save some work. As we all know, the special blue wire from the performance shift needs to make its was from the switch all the way to the PCM. However in this case it didn’t happen. The wire in question needs to connect pin K13 at the C200 and run to Pin H5 on the C101. So in the end, you need to run a wire from K13 at the C200 to the H5 at the C101 and move B4 on the engine harness to A3.

I have an excel sheet outlining the pin cross-over and my notes if any one is interested.

While I was under the dash I decided to run a few additional wires to make the wiring for the intercooler pump and water pump a little more integrated. My plan was to pull power from the LH IP fuse panel at drive two relays and two maxi fuses in the under hood relay/ fuse center. While digging through schematics and looking at the actual car, I found that in 1996 the car was prewired for both manual HVAC and electronic HVAC controls. I ended up using the power from the wire that would power up the manual HVAC unit. I then ran a wire from fuse D5 to G1 at the C101. In this configuration the both pumps would only turn on when the key is in the run position. So now if you look at my under hood relay center, you will find two additional relays and two additional maxi fuses in slot that were previously unused or spares. I will get pictures of this sometime soon.

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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:19 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
I got a couple of things completed this past week. While waiting for finishing machining on the new lower intake, I used a mock-up lower intake to make some O-Ring plugs for plugging the EGR port and the Gen V EVAP port.
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Transmission Parts have also arrived so I was able to get that put together and installed onto the subframe.
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New Borg 15/16", 7/16 Pitch Chain. While I am in here, I am swapping over to 3.29 final drive ratio.
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4330-V pump shaft as compared to the stock peice.
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GM-R Inputshaft with spocket and seals being installed
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This particular case started life out as a standard duty. However it is now sporting the HD Diff and Diff cover.
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Transmission installed on subframe. While the powertrain was out of the car. I descided to replace the rack at this time and the hoses. Subframe also was blasted and repainted prior to assembly. In these pictures is still shows the original brake and fuel lines. This will be replaced with stainless prior to installing the engine. Maybe this weekends project.
ImageImage

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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:25 pm 
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Posts: 238
Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
I forgot to add that Being that I am using a larger throttle body, I created an adapter for the GenV to the new throttle body. I made the adapter a couple of weeks ago and finally got around to blending it to the supercharger.
Before:
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After:
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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 6:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 11:47 pm
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Location: Philadelphia
Year and Trim: 95 SLE
Loving the details. Nice work.

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95 SLE... a keeper. 241k miles. Low and Slow.
97 BMW 528i
98 Infiniti vq35'd i30: 13.3@104mph, 30MPG Hwy (RIP)
02 Jag X-type
03 BMW M5
05 Chevy Cobalt LS
07 Infiniti G35s 6MT (Sold)
07 Ducati Monster S2R 800 with DS1000 swap
83 Yamaha IT175K
72 Yamaha DS7: '74 RD250 swap, JL chambers

Info on dropping a 92-99: Here.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
Saturday and Sunday I was able to get the engine finished bolted together. I am still waiting on the new filter head to come in. The new filter head will be setup to do remote filter and an engine oil cooler. For the belt drive, I knew from the start to that I would be switching over to the 2005 accessory drive, but I decided to see how the 1996 drive would work out.
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Physically, everything fit fine, except for the alternator. I would be nearly impossible to plumb the intercooler and fit the alternator. So, I went forward with the 2005 accessory drive.
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Actually, the only real issue that I ran into on the front drive was actually the motor mount/ water pump interface. Going into this, I was prepared to either scallop the existing casting or fab my own. Fortunately, scalloping it worked fine.
While I was putting the accessory drive on, I didn't like how the intercooler lines would pass through the belt planes. So I fabbed some stainless tubes to allow the plumbing to all pass on the driver side of the engine.
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Yes it is a large pulley, but I am going to start on the large size and have smaller ones to drop down to once I am on the dyno. I have the engine dyno reserved this coming Thursday/ Friday and hope to put out some decent power on pump gas. My hope is that I will have enough time to do some alcohol testing in and maybe even develop a full calibration for it.

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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:55 pm 
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Posts like an L67
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Posts: 1358
Year and Trim: 2000 SSEI
Great job on the motor, done very well! Are the headers a brand name or custom built?

Thank you,
Shane

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2004 Z16 Z06: Virgin
2000 SSEi: Kenwood DDX512, 3.25" MPS, ZZP DP, PLog, Puck Mount, NGK TR7's, DHP Tuned
1995 Monte Z34: T04e "60" turbo, 42.5# injectors, Borla Catback, OBDII swap, DHP Tuned, Much more...


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 238
Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
The ones in the pictures are modified zzp's. I have a custom set that i am finishing up now that will actually be used in the car. The final ones are stepped from 1.62 to 1.75 to 1.88. And have a 2.5 merged type collector.

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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:04 pm 
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Location: MN/IA
Year and Trim: '17 Silverado 1500
Wow, you work quick! And impressive work at that. I can't believe you're going to spin the engine to 7500 RPM. I bet you'll find that you make more power with a larger pulley and more timing, because even with the Gen V and an I/C, you're going to be fighting boost vs just being a hot air pump at that high of RPM, especially on something like a pull down the drag strip.

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Think about it. You’re tooling down the road in your Prius, knowing full-well that this thing being green is as big a sham as federally mandated ethanol-enriched gas, Russia pulling out of Ukraine, and Obamacare.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:54 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2008 11:57 am
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Year and Trim: 2003 SSEi.

LOTS of Mods
I didn't see any mention of fuel system listed Your Going to need larger injectors at Least 60's probably 80's and a good 255 or larger pump

and FYI on that Trans chain. The 15/16 chain is known break in half under moderate power and any hard launches. This also often times takes out the channel plate, valve body, and sometimes get the trans case. Most people prefer the 7/8ths chain set. That chain set is known to stretch, still causing issues but wont leave you stranded.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:54 pm 
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Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
Well, Dyno time was pushed back a few days. But I made on sunday, Monday we spent the day instrumenting, and will spend tuesday and wednesday making numbers...
Image
Image
Unfortunatly, pictures will need to stop here.


Thanks

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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 6:04 pm 
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Location: MN/IA
Year and Trim: '17 Silverado 1500
So, is the above pictured OE also your place of employment?

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RIP sandrock
Sirius wrote:
Think about it. You’re tooling down the road in your Prius, knowing full-well that this thing being green is as big a sham as federally mandated ethanol-enriched gas, Russia pulling out of Ukraine, and Obamacare.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:17 am 
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Location: Detroit, MI
Year and Trim: 1996 Bonneville S/SE
Dyno time was successful.
The important part of the last run is shown below:
Image

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INFO FOR CONVERTING SE TO SSE BODY HERE=>>http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/detailing-appearance/topic39372.html
http://www.pontiacbonnevilleclub.com/forum/performance-brainstorming/topic43633.html
2002 Pro Stock Pontiac Firebird**GM 399 Splayed Valve Engine
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE/SSE **100% Transformation from SE to SSE Complete**Lowered 2.00inches too**


Last edited by Speedster400 on Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:30 am 
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 11:47 pm
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Location: Philadelphia
Year and Trim: 95 SLE
I think the link is broken. Anxious to see the results.

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95 SLE... a keeper. 241k miles. Low and Slow.
97 BMW 528i
98 Infiniti vq35'd i30: 13.3@104mph, 30MPG Hwy (RIP)
02 Jag X-type
03 BMW M5
05 Chevy Cobalt LS
07 Infiniti G35s 6MT (Sold)
07 Ducati Monster S2R 800 with DS1000 swap
83 Yamaha IT175K
72 Yamaha DS7: '74 RD250 swap, JL chambers

Info on dropping a 92-99: Here.


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