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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:01 am 
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Year and Trim: 1998 Bonneville SE. Green, Gold Crosslaces
Ok so I killed my Bonneville... :( Luckily I found a 95 Oldsmobile 88 LS with LOW miles for only 300 bucks. I figured either way, I could get my money back just outta selling the drivetrain and scrapping it.
So I have a few questions on this swap...

I got the motor out of the Olds and am cleaning it up. I've noticed a couple small differences though, however.
The MAP sensor isn't there, at least not in the same location as on my '98... But there does look like a spot with a dummy plug for it.
There are also 2 vacuum lines that run across the front of the motor from a sensor of some sort into a "Y" that are not on the '95. Looks like I could add those from the '98... But are these the only differences? Can I get away with using this motor and transmission by swapping a few sensors and the wiring harness from the 98?

Also, any tips on removing the motor outta the Bonneville? I wish I could just yank it all out from beneath... :( But I'm not equipped in this shop to do that.
On the Olds, I wasn't too worried about cutting things up to get the motor/tranny out. Of course, I don't wanna do that to the Bonneville. Any tips on getting the CV axles out? That's the only thing that slowed me down on the Olds... The rest was cake it seemed.
While it's out, I'm gonna replace valve cover gasgets, oil pan, tranny, etc... Anything else I should take a look at while it's out?

Sorry if I missed this in a previous topic... I tried doing a search but I'm tethered off my phone here in my buddy's shop and signal is horrible... It'd take me all night to browse through a bunch of posts :P

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Last edited by DieselMechanic on Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:43 am 
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First off, the trans from the olds won't work in your 98. The olds has the 4T60E, your car has the 4T65E. Sorry if I burst your bubble with that...

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:59 am 
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Naah it's not a huge deal. Now that ya mention it though, I read that before... Didnt really think about it. I figure for what I've got in the car I can't really get hurt. Thanks for the info though. Did some googlin' and read in one place that some of the first Series II's are different blocks? I figure that's probably what I've got on my hands. Looks like I may just stick it back on Craigslist unfortunately and scrap the rest.

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Last edited by DieselMechanic on Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 2:31 am 
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A series 2 is a series 2. But are you sure the Olds is series 2? Probably is but just make sure. (Only reason I say this is because I know someone with a 95 or 96 regal that has series 1 L27)

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:15 am 
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can you post up pics of said motors.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:21 am 
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You could put the entire '95 engine/trans/computer in, it would take a few days to learn to do the wiring and you would need the chassis service manuals for both donor & your car. It would probably take a week plus two weekends to do if you don't hit any snags and are working full time. Its a time consuming project though and will be a lot for a first timer. The parts will be mostly bolt in swaps, they are the same body style, the difficult part would be making an adapter to go between the car and the engine wiring harnesses. But having the donor car makes it easier.

C/V axles need the nut on the wheel removed, remove the nut that holds the tie rod end to the knuckle, remove the ball joint nut, and remove the end link from the sway bar. They make a spreader for for tie rod ends and ball joints to pop them off the knuckle. You may have to get new boots for them though if they get cut in the process of removal. They should not be removed with a hammer or a sledge. Hammers are used for hitting nails and chisels and punches and spreader forks :roll: . Hammer and sledge will damage the threads on the tie rod ends and ball joints. Use a strong penetrating oil if there is any rust on the axle nuts, and use a big screwdriver in the vanes of the rotor and turn against the caliper mount with a breaker bar to get the axle nut off. I wouldn't use an impact wrench.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:38 am 
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One difference between the '95 and the '98 is the '98 has OBD II and the '95 has OBD 1.5. Not sure how much of a headache that will cause, but I'm guessing there could be some compatibility issues between the various computer modules.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:10 pm 
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We need some clarification. The Olds 88 did in fact have the L36 engine (with a few little differences) in 1995, but the LSS had the Series 2 (Gen3) L67 supercharged engine as an option, and a good many were built that way in LSS trim.

So which one do you have?

As stated above, the transmission will not work with your PCM, and it's not worth the headache of swapping wiring harnesses and PCM's to make it work, even though it was a better transmission. If the engine is supercharged, the transmission will be even more different, as will the entire swap process.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 12:38 pm 
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For an L36 engine swap you'll want to put the following 98 components on to the 95:
Knock sensors
Coolant temp sensor under the thermostat
Map sensor (repace the 95 dummy cap you mentioned)
The throttle body since the 95 has an extra vac port and a different 3 bolt maf sensor
Engine harness and vac stuff

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:03 pm 
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Thanks for the replies fellas. I feel like an idiot working on this thing. Ask me anything in the world about any 4.3, Cummins ISB, or Detroit and I know it off the top of my head. This car is making me feel like a beginner :???:


94SilverSSEi wrote:
A series 2 is a series 2. But are you sure the Olds is series 2? Probably is but just make sure. (Only reason I say this is because I know someone with a 95 or 96 regal that has series 1 L27)


Pretty sure... Looks nearly identical to mine... Had the plastic "Series II" cover on it.
The only thing that made me wonder was this that I found through Google on Camaroforums.net:
"Not all Series II engines are the same. In 1995 when the Series II engine was introduced it used a different block than the 3800 engine and was updated in 1996. Unless you have a 1995 car I would steer away from using this as a replacement engine."
Didn't know if maybe this was the case?

88bonnsse wrote:
can you post up pics of said motors.

Yesir... Comin up..




willwren wrote:
We need some clarification. The Olds 88 did in fact have the L36 engine (with a few little differences) in 1995, but the LSS had the Series 2 (Gen3) L67 supercharged engine as an option, and a good many were built that way in LSS trim.

So which one do you have?

As stated above, the transmission will not work with your PCM, and it's not worth the headache of swapping wiring harnesses and PCM's to make it work, even though it was a better transmission. If the engine is supercharged, the transmission will be even more different, as will the entire swap process.




This 88 is in fact an LSS, but N/A... But my transmission is fine in the Bonneville. I just figured if it was the same I'd swap it just because it was lower miles... No big deal.

My biggest concern is the motor. Here are a few pics I snapped. Like I said, right off the bat I noticed the one on the olds doesn't have a MAP sensor, at least in the same place... As well as a vacuum line to a sensor of some sort just above the front valve cover as I will point out in the picture.

Olds 88 Engine. You can see the "Dummy" plug on the upper plenum where the MAP sensor would be on my 98:
Image
Image
Image

The Bonneville. See the vacuum lines that run just above the valve cover? Comes from the throttle body, through the sensor and back to the vacuum canister beneath the breather box. That isn't on the Olds engine...:
Image




95naSTA wrote:
For an L36 engine swap you'll want to put the following 98 components on to the 95:
Knock sensors
Coolant temp sensor under the thermostat
Map sensor (repace the 95 dummy cap you mentioned)
The throttle body since the 95 has an extra vac port and a different 3 bolt maf sensor
Engine harness and vac stuff


Thanks! That's what I was hoping to find out. I'm pretty sure I can handle that... :D I was gettin ready to list this thing back on Craigslist again. lol

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Last edited by DieselMechanic on Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 9:50 am 
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all olds 88's and 98's, Pontiac Bonnevilles and Buick Park Avenues got the L36 in 1995....

The Regal, LeSabre and the U vans for 95 had the series I 3800 L27...


Like stated above add the knock sensors from the 98, the MAP parts will go right on the 95 motor as will the 98 throttle body... Being a 98 you should have the smaller torque converter so the flywheel will be fine too... You should only need to swap those few parts....


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:06 pm 
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It's alive, finally. Took me about a week and a half, but I've only been able to work on it in the evenings between work and school.

Thanks for the tips, fellas. Much appreciated. Glad to have my DD back on the road and outta the gas hog.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:47 am 
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Cool... Glad to see it.. :beerchug:


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:59 am 
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:stupid:

Glad to see she's back up and running!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:02 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:06 pm 
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:22 pm 
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LOL I used to do the same thing when in HS...

I'm relieved the swap went fairly easy. I was worried since it was going from a '95 to a '98. I've never worked on a front wheel drive car, so to me, it was actually kinda fun.
I de-greased the hell out of the engine bay, new motor... New Valve cover gasgets, oil pan gasget/pickup, thermostat..
Between the two motors, I ended up changing the throttle body, a few vacuum lines, oil level sensor, MAP sensor, Knock sensors, Coolant temp sensor, and Engine harness (Thanks to 95naSTA). I also found that I had to swap the rear manifold to mate up to the exhaust. Wound up breaking the dang bolts off where the Y-pipe connects, but gotta buddy that works at a machine shop so didn't cost me nothing. :D While I had the engine harness off, I cleaned it up and re-taped all of it.
Image


The only issues I've ran into is the oil pressure gauge max'd out... I'm guessing I've somehow managed to ground out the wire... I'll mess with that sometime this week...
And the cheesy ass plastic elbows from the idler arm assembly are leaking like crazy... That'll get addressed tomorrow.

Late saturday evening when I started it for the first time, I was flipping out... It had a horrible miss and was idling way up, down, then dying... I figured it was a vacuum leak. The next day I found that I forgot to place the O-ring beneath the MAP sensor... LOL And I also had a spark plug I'd managed to crack when putting the motor back in.

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Last edited by DieselMechanic on Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:52 pm 
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Ohh yea, I forgot about the rear exhaust manifold and the oil level sensor.

Good you see it went fairly smooth.

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:58 pm 
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Oil pressure sender is probably bad. Get an AC Delco or Delphi. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Yeah that's what I'm figuring... I'm gonna change it when I get back home from VT.

I had a massive coolant leak I just fixed, also... I didn't realize the plastic elbows on the Tensioner assembly were junk and problematic, or I'd have replaced them before I dropped it in. :P

I had a hell of a time figuring out how to get my power steering pump to quit whining. Luckily I found the "Bleed Procedure" and so far all is well.

The only other thing I have to do is remove the front transmission mount with the shock and modify it. The stupid Rock Auto mount doesn't even come close to lining up with the bellhousing bolt. :(

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