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 Post subject: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 5:48 pm
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Location: toronto
Year and Trim: silver 99 black leather SLE
so i was thinkin the other day cause i either want to get a new motor or get one rebuilt.
i hav the 99 sle and its got 220000 on it so i need to do sumting wit it
one of my options was i was thinkin about the v8 northstar from cadillac.
its a fwd motor but would it fit in the bonne.
and what does everyone think about the supercharged 3.8 or the non supercharged 3.8
thanks

cheers


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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:31 pm 
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LOTS of Mods
for all the time and effort plus the headache of the N*, your better off swapping in the L67, have less problems and have more reliability


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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:34 pm 
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Yep, the electronics involved/tied to the Northstar is immense. I like mine alot, but they are a disposable engine. Most run great for 100k and then start falling apart. Not an engine I would pick up "used" to replace something.


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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:19 pm 
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ok thanks boys
so it wud be better too stick wit the 3.8 and im not sure if i want one supercharged or not because i have heard the supercharged come wit plenty of problems


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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:38 pm 
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Location: Des Plaines, IL 60018
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You could go with the 4.9L out of a 90-93 Deville thats a direct swap. But thats OBD1 and a 440t4 or 4T60-e. If you get a donor with an electronic trans then you could subsitute in a 60-hd

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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:24 pm 
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Location: Orlando Fl
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dirtracr95 wrote:
You could go with the 4.9L out of a 90-93 Deville thats a direct swap. But thats OBD1 and a 440t4 or 4T60-e. If you get a donor with an electronic trans then you could subsitute in a 60-hd


So...it's NOT a direct swap then, is it?

For simplicities sake, an L26 (that would be the Series 3) is the way to go. It's slightly more evolved than the S2 you have now as far as the long block is concerned. Just bolt on the L36 upper, transfer your fuel rail, and all is golden. And you want to know something else? They are generally cheaper than an L36!

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Looks like a Volt, Sonata, and Taurus got it on.


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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:48 pm 
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Location: Oregon WCBF'04, '05, '06, '07, '08, '09, '10, '11 Survivor
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The early 90's 4.9 Caddy was an HD trans. Just like the SSEi. But that's a very poor choice for a swap. The 4.9 was troublesome and very prone to oil leaks.

FYI, the heavy duty tailshaft housing on the Zilla right now came from a 93 Deville with the 4.9 V8 (predecessor to the Northstar). They are cross-compatible, and beefier than the non-HD.

Nevertheless, I think an L67 would be a far better choice for a swap than a Northstar, as already stated by others.

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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 9:54 pm 
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All 4.9 Caddy V8's were attached to a 4T60-E HD from 1991-1995...

All Northstar 4.6 V8's were attached to a 4T80-E... First year for the Northstar and the 4T80-E was 1992... and yes they have both been around for 17 Years... There have been improvements...

I would go with an L26 or L67 swap... Either or would work..


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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:16 pm 
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the 4.9L tho isnt as bad as the grenade 4.1L or the much better 4.5L which still isnt as good as 4.9L. Northstar is a better option than the 4.9 when it comes to power but for simple V8 swap 4.9L is easiest. If he wants to swap V6 then stick with something in the 3800 family.

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Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles
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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:23 pm 
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The 4.9 is very simply the worst V8 choice he could make. The Northstar, even with it's difficulty, would be the best swap, and make it complete with the 4T80E and PCM.

The 4.9 was a good motor with low miles and little age, but not for very long. And I can bet you there isn't a good candidate left in any wrecker. With age, they become absolute junk and a major headache. That would be a downgrade from a modern 3800.

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PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers


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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:27 pm 
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The 4.1 or 4.5 is a worse choice than the 4.9. you have to give the 4.9 that much credit they arent THAT bad.

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~~~Freddy~~~ Wyotech Graduate, Future RCSAMS student
Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles
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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:09 pm 
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While I agree that the 4.1 and 4.5 were not good, the 4.9 was decent.. But it oo had some of the same issues... But I am also looking at it this way... The last 4.9 was produced for the 1995 Model year and then dropped.. I don't see many of the 4.9's at all anymore.. The last one being produced 14 years ago... More than most of them will have higher miles on them and most likely an extremely tired 4T60-E if it hasn't failed already..

At the least the 3800 was produced through 08... and even then the Series III had improvements over the series II... Swaping in an L26 would be the quickest and lowest cost option for the OP..

What ever the OP decides to do is on him... If he wants to have an L26 he can do that... If he wants to have an SC 3800 he can do that as well..


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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 3:07 am 
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Location: DeKalb IL
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seeing how you are looking for a little more umph by want the V8 N* i would also recommend shying away from them yes with age they break easier and unless you want to bend metal and rewire lots of wires to make that huge motor tranny fit... i would sooner recommend a L67 for performance the tuning abilities are huge and it would be a direct bolt in. plus the L67 is more fuel efficient and less maintaince is needed they also fit in a bonne to the point you can rip it down to the bare block with out removing the motor from the car. so you can do anything to that L67 your head can come up with with out needing to remove it.

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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2009 4:05 am 
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Yea I am not a real fan of the N* I have seen too many blowing oil after 150k. If you could get one under 50k i would say its worth it though. L67 would be an easy swap though. I drove my neighbors eldorado with the N* and 4T80 and its just a cool different feeling having a V8, fast too for being such a heavy car.

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Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles
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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:13 pm 
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Year and Trim: 2000 - Bonneville SSEi
GXP Venom wrote:
Yep, the electronics involved/tied to the Northstar is immense. I like mine alot, but they are a disposable engine. Most run great for 100k and then start falling apart. Not an engine I would pick up "used" to replace something.


Are you trying to make me nervous about my 'little 4.4 N*' :wink:
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2000 Bonneville SSEi - GXP Wheels, GM Aluminum Gaskets, 180*, AC 41-985's, AC Delco High Performance Wires, Double 'D' I-Shaft, Hogan 3" DP and Magnaflow CAT, Intense FWI, PCM, and 3.4 MPS, GB 715, Full Synthetics, LED Brake Light Conversion, Toshiba HIR's Low/High (one owner - was my moms car) 147k 11/10
2006 Cadillac STS-V - Stealth Gray - GM Performance Cat-Back Exhaust (Borla), D3 Cadillac Intake, Wait4Me E67 Tuned PCM, GM Accessories Smoke Taillights, 3rd Brake Light, Cross Drilled Brembo Rotors, 27k 11/10
2000 Trans Am WS6 - M6, SLP Lid & K&N, SLP Y-pipe, Borla Non-Adustable Exhaust (Sold the SLP); NGK TR55's, !TB, SLP Bellow, 180*, Taylor Thundervolt 10.5mm Wires, !CAGS, Custom Tuned PCM, Full Synthetics (mine from the day it was ordered )
2008 Escalade EXT - GMPP Intake, GMPP Performance Exhaust, Sport Grille, Chrome Tow Hooks, In Channel Ventshades, Front/Rear Matching Tint - 8k 11/10


Last edited by silverws6ta on Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:07 am 
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I seen a stock V crush this fairly built Camaro. Stock 4.4>LS1

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Last edited by dirtracr95 on Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:33 am 
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dirtracr95 wrote:
I seen a stock V crush this fairly built Camaro. Stock 4.4>LS1


Shhh.. :-$ don't say that too loud --- :eek2: -- ;-) My WS6 is strictly boltons and was a *ringer* when it was stock and the V still sucks the paint off the hood :owned: ; granted it also has some boltons and an ECU but no equisite PCM/TCM tuning as of yet *maybe* 515 crank hp as it sits but its also needs to be on Weight Watchers toting its 4200lb lard ... around.

Back on topic.. see if you can squash an LC3 in there :)

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2000 Bonneville SSEi - GXP Wheels, GM Aluminum Gaskets, 180*, AC 41-985's, AC Delco High Performance Wires, Double 'D' I-Shaft, Hogan 3" DP and Magnaflow CAT, Intense FWI, PCM, and 3.4 MPS, GB 715, Full Synthetics, LED Brake Light Conversion, Toshiba HIR's Low/High (one owner - was my moms car) 147k 11/10
2006 Cadillac STS-V - Stealth Gray - GM Performance Cat-Back Exhaust (Borla), D3 Cadillac Intake, Wait4Me E67 Tuned PCM, GM Accessories Smoke Taillights, 3rd Brake Light, Cross Drilled Brembo Rotors, 27k 11/10
2000 Trans Am WS6 - M6, SLP Lid & K&N, SLP Y-pipe, Borla Non-Adustable Exhaust (Sold the SLP); NGK TR55's, !TB, SLP Bellow, 180*, Taylor Thundervolt 10.5mm Wires, !CAGS, Custom Tuned PCM, Full Synthetics (mine from the day it was ordered )
2008 Escalade EXT - GMPP Intake, GMPP Performance Exhaust, Sport Grille, Chrome Tow Hooks, In Channel Ventshades, Front/Rear Matching Tint - 8k 11/10


Last edited by silverws6ta on Sat Feb 07, 2009 1:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:50 am 
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honestly with umlimited money, time, and energy; as well as enginenuity you can cram just about anything in there. and if he was to go V8 i would shy away from N* and lean towards the 5.3 that was dumped into the GP GXP. but seeing the economy even bill gates cant throw money around so go inexpensive get a low mileage L67 or L32 then tune away with the inexpensive aftermarket that is out there for those motors.

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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:49 am 
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but i wouldnt really call the 3800 aftermarket inexpensive. If you want something cheap to Mod a SBF or SBC.

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~~~Freddy~~~ Wyotech Graduate, Future RCSAMS student
Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles
Image


Last edited by Jrs3800 on Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: v8 northstar
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 10:49 am 
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dirtracr95 wrote:
but i wouldnt really call the 3800 aftermarket inexpensive. If you want something cheap to Mod a SBF or SBC.


Agreed -- I spent around $1,500 easily with the doing the work myself on mods and preventative maintenance items (and that was including fuel gauge wiper, motor mount, wheel bearing, etc)

SBC's are probably the cheapest and most abundant.

_________________
2000 Bonneville SSEi - GXP Wheels, GM Aluminum Gaskets, 180*, AC 41-985's, AC Delco High Performance Wires, Double 'D' I-Shaft, Hogan 3" DP and Magnaflow CAT, Intense FWI, PCM, and 3.4 MPS, GB 715, Full Synthetics, LED Brake Light Conversion, Toshiba HIR's Low/High (one owner - was my moms car) 147k 11/10
2006 Cadillac STS-V - Stealth Gray - GM Performance Cat-Back Exhaust (Borla), D3 Cadillac Intake, Wait4Me E67 Tuned PCM, GM Accessories Smoke Taillights, 3rd Brake Light, Cross Drilled Brembo Rotors, 27k 11/10
2000 Trans Am WS6 - M6, SLP Lid & K&N, SLP Y-pipe, Borla Non-Adustable Exhaust (Sold the SLP); NGK TR55's, !TB, SLP Bellow, 180*, Taylor Thundervolt 10.5mm Wires, !CAGS, Custom Tuned PCM, Full Synthetics (mine from the day it was ordered )
2008 Escalade EXT - GMPP Intake, GMPP Performance Exhaust, Sport Grille, Chrome Tow Hooks, In Channel Ventshades, Front/Rear Matching Tint - 8k 11/10


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