Hi all, i am going to turbo the LN3 in my 90 lesabre 4 door. i bought it as a project car and test mule.

This is what the car already has done to it (i bought it this way)
The muffler has been cut out
The cat has been deleted
The tranny had a complete fluid flush
The engine had a recent tune up
New water pump
Mobile 1 oil
New struts








I have since removed all the damaged body panels and will be replacing them tomorrow along with the radiator and adding an extenal trans cooler. today i will be tearing off the A/C since it just dead weight at this point.

The Turbo plan

i am going mount the turbo back where the muffler used to be. i have heard of this idea before and have seen it done so i figure i might as well try it to see how well it really works. i am doing this on a budget so i will mostly be using parts i already have. The turbo is i believe TD04 (16g) now i realize its small for my engine and i dont care. Its what i got and i am not looking for alot of boost. I plan on running the oil feed line off of where the oil pressure sensor goes with a T fitting. The return will be plumbed into the oil pan. I am debating on whether or not i should come up with a self contained cooling system for it or if i should just run heater hose back to the turbo. As for tuning i know i will need more fuel and i have come up with a way to supply the engine the amount of fuel it needs with out getting a custom burned computer. I am going to install the Series 1 L67 injectors. They are a match with the LN3 injectors when it comes to specs. both have a resistance of 14.3-14.7 ohms and both require 6.99-7.64 volts. The current draw is also the same at .5 amps. Now the only thing i am probably going to spend some money on is the WB02 sensor. I am going to use it to determine how much fuel i am going to have to add or subtract. I am going adjust the fuel with resistors on the IAT. I dont want to put them on the coolant temp sensor because i need to make sure that the computer goes into closed loop. And a min ECT sensor reading is needed in order for the computer to go into closed loop. For those of you that do not know what closed loop is it is when the computer uses the O2 sensor to adjust the pulse width of the fuel injectors so that it can maintain 14.7:1 A/F ratio. Closed loop is only used when cruising under a light to medium load. The computer goes out of closed loop and into open loop when you are under WOT(which is where i plan on spending most of my time with this car) so i need to set the resistor going inline with the IAT so that i get about a 11.0:1 A/F ratio under WOT. Keeping the A/F ratio that rich under WOT should help reduce KR and maybe keep the turbo spooling hard. I will be installing a boost gauge. Now i am going to limit the boost pressure so that i dont get KR.

My Concerns
The Map sensor - it is only a single bar map sensor so it can only read 1 Bar or the atmospheric pressure at sea level (14.6 psi). Now i am at 7200 ft so the atmospheric pressure here is 11.3 or so psi so my MAP sensor should be happy up til 3.3 pounds of boost. now I plan on running a little more than that so i think my MAP sensor might freak out and i am not sure what to do about that yet. I know that the MAP sensor senses load and pressure but i dont want it messing up my fuel trims.

The MAF sensor - I know that it measures the amount of air coming into the engine but i am unsure of it limits. If someone has a chart of the readings it will send with the differnt amounts of air would they please post them. I may have to try hard digging into ALLDATA to find this. I may look into mitchell to see if it has it and if there would be an alturnative on another GM car.

Please people i dont want to hear about beefing up the tranny or any of the reliability issues I am aware of them. I know everyone loves telling people them but this is a car i bought for 220 dollars and i am just using as a test mule. If you have any ideas or concerns relating to solving problems or future problems that i might run into please feel free to say them.

I will post more pics of the car later today and then more pics tomorrow.

Freddy

_________________
~~~Freddy~~~ Wyotech Graduate, Future RCSAMS student
Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles

My turbo will show up from my house here in 4 days so thats when the real work will begin. right now just working on how i am going to tune the car and making it look normal

OK well i think i am going to tune with the Apexi SAFC 2 i have used one before in my Brothers 92 Plymoth Lazer AWD turbo. So i think it will be able to handle trimming the fuel how i need. I am also going to getting a WB02 so that i can actually tune it correct.

i saw the post on the YT 1.8 Rockers for the series 1 with the 5/16" studs and if i am correct the stud size in My LN3 is 3/8" but i think i am going to drill the threads out and use an insert that i dont remember the name of. I know its not helicoil i would never use a helicoil unless it was the ONLY option. I will find out later today what the product is called.

Anyway I replaced my starter solenoid since the one on the car was bad which caused something to short out in the control circuit so i am just going to run my own starter switch.

here are more pictures

with the fenders and front end off

removing the broken solenoid

you can see how the core support is bent down right there

core support bent down on otherside

rear wheel well rust its not flaking yet so it will be getting fixed soon

Drivers door panel in really good shape minus the trim missing

front seats a little sun faded but in nice condition still

perfect headliner

pushed in rear bumper i am going to try to pull the bumpershock back out

Broken tail light and header panel

Cancer

tore the metal and broke the spot welds where the bumper shock goes. Just waiting on a welder and some steel to fix it

More cancer

Even more cancer

Tore the metal and broke the spot welds like the other side but this side is much better. waiting for welder and steel to fix it also

Cancer

_________________
~~~Freddy~~~ Wyotech Graduate, Future RCSAMS student
Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles

i'm no expert, but wouldnt you get a lot of lag with the turbo mounted so far back? sounds like a lot of work to fab up all the lines too, like you mentioned. why did you decide to mount it there?

I am not sure if there will be alot of lag. I would probably assume so but this car is just a test mule so i dont have to take my Lesabre TType off the road. anything that works well here will probably be transfed over. I chose that spot because the muffler was already cut out and missing when i bought the car. The cat was deleted and filled in with just a straight pipe so i figured it wouldnt lose too much flow or velocity when heading to the turbo. If it turns out that this doesnt work very well then i will try something else. It is going to be alot of piping yes but most of it will be straight

_________________
~~~Freddy~~~ Wyotech Graduate, Future RCSAMS student
Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles

looks like you've got a ton of work to do on your hands....but the best of luck to you!!

i'm looking forward to seeing pics of the end result.

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CAI - PEMs - ZZP 2.5" DP - PLIM - 180* T-stat - AL605s - 245/50R16 - cleared front & rear corners - 20% tint - GXP strut brace

Not to rain on your parade here...

but the level of the other rust in the normal places for an h-body screams that the rear sub frame mounts probably aren't looking very good. that is probably the only rust you need to worry about structurally and that's the only place you didn't post a picture. I just would hate to see you go through all this trouble and have the sub frame fail. Especially if you just happened to be at speed when it happened.

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John
Now: '15 Toyota Prius III | 134 hp 2ZR-FXE | Silver | 36k
Now: '03 Honda CR-V AWD | Slow 4-Cylinder | Dirt | 180k
Then: '07 Ford Fusion SEL | 221hp Gen I VVT Duratec 3.0 V6 | Tungsten Silver | 150k
Then: '99 Toyota Avalon XL | 200hp 1MZ-FE 3.0 V6 | Diamond White | 189k | Sold: July 2015
Then: '11 Ford Fusion SEL | 240hp Gen II VVT Duratec 3.0 V6 | Ingot Silver | 84k | Totaled: Oct 23 '14 (Rear-Ended)
Then: '96 Buick Park Avenue Ultra | 240hp Series II L67 | Medium Dark Lichen | Bought: JAN 11 @ 135k | Accident: FEB 3 '12 | Crushed: MAR 1 '13 @ 153K
Then: '98 Pontiac Bonneville SSE | 205hp Series II 3800 L36 | Topaz Firemist | Bought: NOV '09 @ 74k | Accident: MAY 28 '10 | Crushed: MAR 15 '11 @ 84k
Then: '93 Pontiac Bonneville SE | 170hp Series I 3800 L27 | Dark Yellow Green | Bought: JULY '07 @ 92k | Sold: JULY '12 @ 118k
Then: '89 Pontiac Bonneville LE | 165hp 3800 LN3 | Medium Garnet Red | Bought: JAN '05 @ 117k | Sold: SEP 30 '07 @ 152k

I am guessing your using the car as a rolling testbed for the engine and turbo configuration. Rust should not be an issue, your basically using the body to test how your modifications will fit on your T-type right?

_________________

2007 Grand Prix GT L32
Poly endlinks, swaybar bushings and dogbone bushings. Drop in high flow air filter. Its a start!

2009 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS (project BlackSheep) Bone stock for now, 5 spd and fun as hell! (Gf's Ride)
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE Gone but not forgotten
1997 Dodge Ram Sport 4x4 5.9L The Beast!

yep it just a test mule and probably wintercar i will make sure i can tune it also. I will hopefully be getting some dyno time here at wyotech too so i can see what kinda numbers it will put down but then that means i got less than 4 weeks to finish this. i will take a pic of the rear subframe mounts today. This is my third H-body and only my second rusted one. i have 2 T-Types a very rusted one that makes this one look good and a rust free one.

_________________
~~~Freddy~~~ Wyotech Graduate, Future RCSAMS student
Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles

Well i got the car running well today. It runs great and the trans shifts great I know i am missing some of the bottom end torque because it has a straight pipe with no cat and the 2.84 gears when i am use to the 2.97. in the Video the SES light is on because of the IAT the previous owner sold it with the airbox. The last picture is also a spot of rust i fixed.

I must say i really dont like the FE1 suspension. That is going to have to go its too soft. I will have to swap over to the F41 or FE2 suspension.









Rear subframe mount


Rear Subframe mount



The rust spot i fixed. you can see it in one of the earlier photos

_________________
~~~Freddy~~~ Wyotech Graduate, Future RCSAMS student
Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles

Wow..something looks a lot more reinforced about the metal that mount is connected to than the Bonnevilles got. Interesting.

Not as bad as I thought it would be because of that.

_________________
John
Now: '15 Toyota Prius III | 134 hp 2ZR-FXE | Silver | 36k
Now: '03 Honda CR-V AWD | Slow 4-Cylinder | Dirt | 180k
Then: '07 Ford Fusion SEL | 221hp Gen I VVT Duratec 3.0 V6 | Tungsten Silver | 150k
Then: '99 Toyota Avalon XL | 200hp 1MZ-FE 3.0 V6 | Diamond White | 189k | Sold: July 2015
Then: '11 Ford Fusion SEL | 240hp Gen II VVT Duratec 3.0 V6 | Ingot Silver | 84k | Totaled: Oct 23 '14 (Rear-Ended)
Then: '96 Buick Park Avenue Ultra | 240hp Series II L67 | Medium Dark Lichen | Bought: JAN 11 @ 135k | Accident: FEB 3 '12 | Crushed: MAR 1 '13 @ 153K
Then: '98 Pontiac Bonneville SSE | 205hp Series II 3800 L36 | Topaz Firemist | Bought: NOV '09 @ 74k | Accident: MAY 28 '10 | Crushed: MAR 15 '11 @ 84k
Then: '93 Pontiac Bonneville SE | 170hp Series I 3800 L27 | Dark Yellow Green | Bought: JULY '07 @ 92k | Sold: JULY '12 @ 118k
Then: '89 Pontiac Bonneville LE | 165hp 3800 LN3 | Medium Garnet Red | Bought: JAN '05 @ 117k | Sold: SEP 30 '07 @ 152k

yea i got no worries about it.

2 days til my turbo shows up

_________________
~~~Freddy~~~ Wyotech Graduate, Future RCSAMS student
Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles

I think that the L67 injectors are differant length than your gen, and will require the newer fuel rail as well. I had both of them side by side, but I did not try to interchange them so I cant say 100%. Is there room to mount the turbo under the car, and is that a safe place for it? A member Merlin made a turbo LN3. There could be pics of it on the old BC.

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__/"""""\___
"-@--------@--" 1990 SSE " Black Ice " 215,456+ kms,
16" Streetwear Diablo wheels | FWI | Magnaflow cat | '94 top swap | MSD Ignition | Projector Retrofit w/ HIDs | Modded Mesh Grille | STB | Blue interior LEDs | LED 3rd brake light | Dynamat | Woodgrain delete | JVC NX-5000 nav/dvd | Infinity 1230W

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/674760/19 ... bonneville

Well i got my turbo yesterday and my injectors today. I have already started on making templates for the turbo flanges. I just gotta buy the steel and cut them out. I am thinking about placing the turbo not as far back. maybe where the cat used to be. I will have to see if there is enough room there.

I am not going to install the injectors just yet i want to see how far the stock ones will go. If i see the pulse width is getting too big then i will see if the S1 L67 injectors will work. I also ohmed them and they all were with-in specs (14.3-14.7ohms). Just from a visual inspection they appear to be the same size. I am going to need new o-rings for them.

I discovered I have one less obstacle to overcome the MAP sensor i was getting confused with all the other cars i am working on at Wyotech. So i dont have to worry about it on my car since it doesnt have one. I hate it when i start to remember so much that stuff starts to blur together.

I still have to find a 3.1 or 3.4 MAF so that my car will be able to read more air and be less likely to max out the sensor. If anyone out there has one cheap i am looking. If not i can try to get one from the salvage yard when i head there saturday to scrap some aluminium. The salvage yard said that me and my friend might be able to work for parts which would be a huge way to save money. They dont even know the goldmine they are sitting on. They are just interested in the scrap metal.

_________________
~~~Freddy~~~ Wyotech Graduate, Future RCSAMS student
Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles

Your 88 PCM doesn't report injector pulse-width. 94 was the first year a GM PCM could do that.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

Not True..

Quite a few could actually with the right software.

_________________

95 SLE... a keeper. 241k miles. Low and Slow.
97 BMW 528i
98 Infiniti vq35'd i30: 13.3@104mph, 30MPG Hwy (RIP)
02 Jag X-type
03 BMW M5
05 Chevy Cobalt LS
07 Infiniti G35s 6MT (Sold)
07 Ducati Monster S2R 800 with DS1000 swap
83 Yamaha IT175K
72 Yamaha DS7: '74 RD250 swap, JL chambers

Info on dropping a 92-99: Here.

Name more than two people on this forum with the software.

And that software has it's drawbacks as well, which is why I chose a different route.

Get a wideband O2 instead. It can tell you everything you need to know, including if you're outflowing your injectors. But I can tell you that anything over 5psi or so, you'll be upgrading.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

Still dosen't correct your statement. I was just trying to correct mis-information.


Not getting into 'drawbacks' either... Which I don't agree with.

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95 SLE... a keeper. 241k miles. Low and Slow.
97 BMW 528i
98 Infiniti vq35'd i30: 13.3@104mph, 30MPG Hwy (RIP)
02 Jag X-type
03 BMW M5
05 Chevy Cobalt LS
07 Infiniti G35s 6MT (Sold)
07 Ducati Monster S2R 800 with DS1000 swap
83 Yamaha IT175K
72 Yamaha DS7: '74 RD250 swap, JL chambers

Info on dropping a 92-99: Here.

Sounds like you agree with the drawbacks. Would you also agree that a WB O2 would be the best option for him?

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

Hmmm....

This could be an opportunity to explore OBD2 as well. The only issue left for me to iron out before the fraggapart was the transmission tables...something Alibi would not need to do if he keeps the 440T4.

Alibi...did you happen to check out my pictures of the L27 that got converted over to L67?
viewtopic.php?f=44&t=194

I ask this because the LN3 and the L27 are essentially the one and the same, aside from the heads. I would hope your bearings would be upgraded, otherwise you will run into the same issues I did.

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2005 GXP - White Gold Pearl, no mods...yet.
2000 SSEi - Resurrection in progress. Built L67 w/L32 fuel rail, ported heads, and cam. Camaro front brake system, GXP cluster, and much more in planning.

First off i am not Alibi. Although we are both from www.lesabret.com

Ok well quit bickering about the stupid software i will be buying a Snapon MODIS. So if it doesnt measure Pulsewidth which i think it will, then i can measure it using the scope feature. I dont want to convert to OBD2 that means i got to install alot more sensors and wire them which i could probably do without too much problem but i dont want to spend the money on it.

_________________
~~~Freddy~~~ Wyotech Graduate, Future RCSAMS student
Pandora 1988 Lesabre T-Type 259000 miles
Darlington 1987 Lesabre T-Type 115000 miles
Cream Puff 1988 Lesabre T-Type 194500 miles