Come on... brotha...
We have the technology and were not afraid to use it.
We know what to do and would even be happy to do it for you.

_________________
Best 60' = 1.716
Best ET = 12.186
Best MPH = 112.98

Time for another update...
First thing, everyone else got their crack at smoothing the LIM... and yesterday I was at a store that had dremmell supplies so I found a metal grinding tip that was shaped like a bullet, cone shaped on the tip and smoothed out to a barrell shape so I installed it and got totally addicted. While I was burning time working the LIM, Bob & a local GP owner/member kept busy doing more "while your at it" stuff like, they cleaned the injectors and installed the new injector O-rings. Installed the valve covers. and I'm not sure what else.
Now for the pics.
This is the LIM, holding it up to the light so you can see the P&P work in the intake runners.

Another view showing the other side.

This view shows how we also smoothed the leading edges in the intake runners inside the intake.

We had a new member stop by yesterday for the frst time so it was a meet & greet but best of all he was our age, we all got along really well and he rolled up his sleves and helped for several hours.
So here he is puttig thread locker on the LIM bolts for Chief Bad Lifter.

Those guys made a great team.

And of course saving the best for last... Bob doing what he does best... read the spec sheet/instructions and performing the proper torque sequence. Good job there Mr. Chief Bad Lifter. hmm.. ugh..

That's all we did because we stopped and installed a ZZP MPS on the new guys GTP.
Oh... yeah... Does anyone notice anything unusual about that Intake?
We'll finish-er up tonight.
Later,

_________________
Best 60' = 1.716
Best ET = 12.186
Best MPH = 112.98

Intercooler is next......

_________________

2000 SSEi - SilverBullet - 78,000 kms, 4" "straight shot" custom headlight ram air inlet, TOGs, 1.9's, Lsd, 2.9-3.4"MPS 10-15 psi, Ported GenV, EGR eliminated, OR pushrods, oil volume kit, trani cooler & shift kit, Titanium retainers, 90 lb springs, 160 Stat, 42# injectors, Fuel pump voltage increase, Wideband O2, 3" to dual 2 1/2" Magnaflows, Snow Meth/water injection, after SC temp gauge, 255/50WR17, timing commander set 15-18*@WOT, 2 speed Fan over-ride, disabled DRL, Solid motor mount, Meziere Electric water pump, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, Drilled & slotted rotors/ceramics, GXP sway bars and STB, Upgraded and rebuilt transmission with ZZP 2500 rpm stall TC, Pioneer Bluetooth stereo with sub and 800 W amps, PB 13.5 quarter, (April 2014 car of the month)

Looks normal to me.

_________________
97 Ei
97 GS
98 GS

We could have finished it up last night, but we took the time to make sure that the LIM was "complete" and wouldn't have to come back off for any "further" work for possible, future improvements

I also took the time to polish up the alternator and clean up some of those "hard to get to" spots on the motor once everthing is bolted back on. Also cleaned out the injector bosses and installed the freshly painted and detailed EGR assembly (the other thing in the bay that wasn't up to my usual standards for apperance) while Thomas finished up the LIM. It's the original alternator and was the worst looking part of the engine bay. I have been waiting for it to die so I could get a nice new shiney one, but the thing just keeps going. So, with my luck, now that I took the time to clean it up, it will probably fail next week.

Really getting anxious to fire it up and bring it home which should easily happen later this evening (unless Thomas finds something else to post or polish )

_________________
"Really Not Stock Anymore" Bob and most recently renamed, "Chief BadLifter"
Best ¼ ET=13.674, Best 60’=2.122, Best Trap=102.26 mph Pacesetter headers (2.5" outlet), Magnaflow hi-flo cat, INTENSE FWI w/K&N 9" cone, ZZP XP cam, INTENSE OR pushrods, Comp 105 springs, Autolite 103 plugs, Stoppenbach tuned PCM

Don't be too anxious for it to fail.
Mine was just replaced and the output voltage is only 13.6 instead of the 14.3 is used to be.

_________________

2000 SSEi - SilverBullet - 78,000 kms, 4" "straight shot" custom headlight ram air inlet, TOGs, 1.9's, Lsd, 2.9-3.4"MPS 10-15 psi, Ported GenV, EGR eliminated, OR pushrods, oil volume kit, trani cooler & shift kit, Titanium retainers, 90 lb springs, 160 Stat, 42# injectors, Fuel pump voltage increase, Wideband O2, 3" to dual 2 1/2" Magnaflows, Snow Meth/water injection, after SC temp gauge, 255/50WR17, timing commander set 15-18*@WOT, 2 speed Fan over-ride, disabled DRL, Solid motor mount, Meziere Electric water pump, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, Drilled & slotted rotors/ceramics, GXP sway bars and STB, Upgraded and rebuilt transmission with ZZP 2500 rpm stall TC, Pioneer Bluetooth stereo with sub and 800 W amps, PB 13.5 quarter, (April 2014 car of the month)

Your LIM is missing metal in a good way, that is going to be one heck of a fast car when your done, rumor has it that it was very fast to begin with

_________________

2007 Grand Prix GT L32
Poly endlinks, swaybar bushings and dogbone bushings. Drop in high flow air filter. Its a start!

2009 Mitsubishi Eclipse GS (project BlackSheep) Bone stock for now, 5 spd and fun as hell! (Gf's Ride)
1996 Pontiac Bonneville SE Gone but not forgotten
1997 Dodge Ram Sport 4x4 5.9L The Beast!

I'm not excited anymore..

Appearently the lifter was the symptom and not the problem.
We haven't toasted any more lifters yet and aren't planning on starting the engine anytime soon.

The main missfire on cylinder number 2 still exists.
The oil pressure is better when the engine is at cruise or higher rpms and it should because we made changes to that system but at idle the oil pressure still drops to 10 or 12 psi, not good at all.
Something internally is leaking oil pressure and causing the problems on cylinder #2.
Bummer..

So yes, it looks like the oil pressure problem still exists and is causing the missfire problems.
The manual talks about valve guides can cause no or low oil pressure and high oil consumpion.

I fear that something is broken in the motor.
If it is a valve sleeve or guide that would be good I supose.

We are currently rethinking the entire roadmap on this motor. Bob hasen't decided yet. and we haven't started the next steps in t-shooting now that all the of the mechanical stuff is working corrrectly.
Anyone have a set of L67 heads?

And we never got a chance to show off some more progressive work in the blower.
I showw that stuff when we get the car runing.

Off to bed now,

Later,

_________________
Best 60' = 1.716
Best ET = 12.186
Best MPH = 112.98

Was hoping to take the Bonne home, tonight, but I guess it wasn't meant to be (but the engine and bay sure look good )

Probably a compression test tomorrow.

Trying to make the connection between the low oil pressure at idle and the misfire. Since the FSM mentions that no or low O.P. could be a valve guide and cylinder 2 still seems to be not getting the right amount of something (air maybe?), maybe the lifter failure was caused somehow by an intake valve or intake component failure which broke that lifter. Now that a new lifter is in, but it is still running poorly and misfiring, maybe the valve is scored or bent and can't open or close properly, or the valve guide, or valve seal is messed up. And, although it looks fine, may need to pull off the valve spring to double-check it.

_________________
"Really Not Stock Anymore" Bob and most recently renamed, "Chief BadLifter"
Best ¼ ET=13.674, Best 60’=2.122, Best Trap=102.26 mph Pacesetter headers (2.5" outlet), Magnaflow hi-flo cat, INTENSE FWI w/K&N 9" cone, ZZP XP cam, INTENSE OR pushrods, Comp 105 springs, Autolite 103 plugs, Stoppenbach tuned PCM

Very distressing news.
I hope all works out and the problem is in the top end and not the bottom.

The symptoms seem to point to the top end.

If oil pressure drops below a certain value, I think the PCM cuts off the fuel to protect the engine......

_________________

2000 SSEi - SilverBullet - 78,000 kms, 4" "straight shot" custom headlight ram air inlet, TOGs, 1.9's, Lsd, 2.9-3.4"MPS 10-15 psi, Ported GenV, EGR eliminated, OR pushrods, oil volume kit, trani cooler & shift kit, Titanium retainers, 90 lb springs, 160 Stat, 42# injectors, Fuel pump voltage increase, Wideband O2, 3" to dual 2 1/2" Magnaflows, Snow Meth/water injection, after SC temp gauge, 255/50WR17, timing commander set 15-18*@WOT, 2 speed Fan over-ride, disabled DRL, Solid motor mount, Meziere Electric water pump, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, Drilled & slotted rotors/ceramics, GXP sway bars and STB, Upgraded and rebuilt transmission with ZZP 2500 rpm stall TC, Pioneer Bluetooth stereo with sub and 800 W amps, PB 13.5 quarter, (April 2014 car of the month)

Paul, there's a little twist to that we recently discovered:

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4515



I would agree though, that the problem seems to be related to the top end (rear cylinder head). A compression check is absolutely the next thing to do.

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

I just poured my second cup of coffee and got the rest of the family off to church.
Its time to go do that compression test.

I fear that the small piece of cylinder head betewwn the two valves is chipped and leaking.
I have been reading about valve guides all night... couldn't sleep. well... until Julie woke and put me to sleep.

any...eee... way...

I still don't understand the valve guide lubrication process, need to study this and need to figure out how this oil pressure drop, is related. or.. if the valve guide doesn't get proper oiling, what happens? how does it expierance a failure? what happens when it fails? etc..

I just want to chase the problem and not the symptoms & collaterial damage. Although it is necessary to fix all the collaterial damages of course. were still chasing the source.

_________________
Best 60' = 1.716
Best ET = 12.186
Best MPH = 112.98

Well.. I finished my coffee.

And I finished the compression check.
Cylinder # 2 has the same compression as the rest of the cylinders.

Now I have hauled out the manuals, I'm looking for oil system fluid paths.
I want to know if its possible that the engine has a check or pop-off valve for each "cylinder" meaning lifters, I still think the old lifter got hammered because of the low oil pressure problem.
So about that same oil fluid path inside cylinder # 2, is it possible that we have a blockage in the fluid path going to that lifter and cylinder#2 intake valve is sill having the same problem, the lifter is not pumped up to operating pressure & we just haven't killed the new lifter yet but its not fully pumped up completely and is still the source of this issue.

_________________
Best 60' = 1.716
Best ET = 12.186
Best MPH = 112.98

What if you have lost the pre-load on the lifter due to valvetrain...or cam lobe.....wear?

_________________

2000 SSEi - SilverBullet - 78,000 kms, 4" "straight shot" custom headlight ram air inlet, TOGs, 1.9's, Lsd, 2.9-3.4"MPS 10-15 psi, Ported GenV, EGR eliminated, OR pushrods, oil volume kit, trani cooler & shift kit, Titanium retainers, 90 lb springs, 160 Stat, 42# injectors, Fuel pump voltage increase, Wideband O2, 3" to dual 2 1/2" Magnaflows, Snow Meth/water injection, after SC temp gauge, 255/50WR17, timing commander set 15-18*@WOT, 2 speed Fan over-ride, disabled DRL, Solid motor mount, Meziere Electric water pump, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, Drilled & slotted rotors/ceramics, GXP sway bars and STB, Upgraded and rebuilt transmission with ZZP 2500 rpm stall TC, Pioneer Bluetooth stereo with sub and 800 W amps, PB 13.5 quarter, (April 2014 car of the month)

We went completely thru the valve train...
Cam looked like new, not a scratch on it. and we checked all lobes not just the one we are having a problem with. That was the first thing I checked, because we needed to know if the cam was good or not.
pushrods are straight and we made no effort to put hem back in the same place.
Rockers & valve springs are good.
valve is straight and the rocker is centered perfectly on the valve. wear or for a better phrase, witness lines on the roler tip of the rocker... marks on the rocker tip is perfectly centered, looks great.
I do need to study the set of cylinder heads that I have in my shed and see how the valve seats are lubricated and see if its possible for the oil pressure for that cylinder along can leak up a the cylinder head valve stem and cause our oil pressure problem.

We also need to understand how the oil fluid path is routed thru the engine block.

I also have two used oil pumps that I can look at for the whole touchy feely process.

Thanks for the brain food Paul, keep it coming.

_________________
Best 60' = 1.716
Best ET = 12.186
Best MPH = 112.98

I had a similar problem once. Changed the lifters and the problem was still there. I had to take off the heads and regrind the valves when I intalled a new Crane cam. That fixed the problem. Sure hope you find a simpler fix.

_________________

2000 SSEi - SilverBullet - 78,000 kms, 4" "straight shot" custom headlight ram air inlet, TOGs, 1.9's, Lsd, 2.9-3.4"MPS 10-15 psi, Ported GenV, EGR eliminated, OR pushrods, oil volume kit, trani cooler & shift kit, Titanium retainers, 90 lb springs, 160 Stat, 42# injectors, Fuel pump voltage increase, Wideband O2, 3" to dual 2 1/2" Magnaflows, Snow Meth/water injection, after SC temp gauge, 255/50WR17, timing commander set 15-18*@WOT, 2 speed Fan over-ride, disabled DRL, Solid motor mount, Meziere Electric water pump, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, Drilled & slotted rotors/ceramics, GXP sway bars and STB, Upgraded and rebuilt transmission with ZZP 2500 rpm stall TC, Pioneer Bluetooth stereo with sub and 800 W amps, PB 13.5 quarter, (April 2014 car of the month)

When you did that did you change out the oil seals and valve stem guides?
- so in other words... did you do a complete rebuild of the cylinder heads?

Just wondering what the individual problem was?
I have spent some time reading thru the manuals and I'm ready to go do some more t-shooting.

_________________
Best 60' = 1.716
Best ET = 12.186
Best MPH = 112.98

Yes, the heads were professionally rebuilt including replacement of a valve that was out of tolerance on the stem tip height. It was the offending clacking lifter location. New brass valve guides were also installed because the clearance was also excessive.

_________________

2000 SSEi - SilverBullet - 78,000 kms, 4" "straight shot" custom headlight ram air inlet, TOGs, 1.9's, Lsd, 2.9-3.4"MPS 10-15 psi, Ported GenV, EGR eliminated, OR pushrods, oil volume kit, trani cooler & shift kit, Titanium retainers, 90 lb springs, 160 Stat, 42# injectors, Fuel pump voltage increase, Wideband O2, 3" to dual 2 1/2" Magnaflows, Snow Meth/water injection, after SC temp gauge, 255/50WR17, timing commander set 15-18*@WOT, 2 speed Fan over-ride, disabled DRL, Solid motor mount, Meziere Electric water pump, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, Drilled & slotted rotors/ceramics, GXP sway bars and STB, Upgraded and rebuilt transmission with ZZP 2500 rpm stall TC, Pioneer Bluetooth stereo with sub and 800 W amps, PB 13.5 quarter, (April 2014 car of the month)

Thomas, I can't think of much other than a valve stem seal that could be causing misfires, and I don't think that could affect oil pressure. I've been poking at my extra set of heads and my GM production prints trying to rationalize this, yet nothing makes sense.

Remind us again whether it was an intake or exhaust lifter that failed?

_________________

Click here for mod list for both cars
93 SSEi, 95 SLE (supercharged) 97 Buick LeSabre Limited
PontiacDad at WCBF '04: Cruise control? That's like surrendering!
Comprehensive guide to troubleshooting, rebuilding, and modifying Eaton Superchargers

Cylinder # 2 intake, it is the first lifter on that side of the motor meaning its the closest lifter to the oil pump on the back of the engine.

Replacing the seal is prett easy, the guide would require removing the cylinder head which is more work but not a problem.

If .. . .. the oil journal on that lifter oil passage was partially clogged.. then it could cause the problem. According to the manual, change the block.
Maybe it said clean, bore or change.

Thanks Bill.
The puzzle has to make sense to us.
The oil pressure dropped in Corvallis.
Bob driver to Frez but keeping the engine rpms up.
after Bob sat at a traffic light in Frez.. the lifter collapsed while pulling away from the signal, I suspect from the low oil pressure.
So... was it excessive drag on the valve stem inside the valve guide.. as a result of low oil presure that collapsed the lifter because the valve is not moving but the lifter is the only mechanical art that has some "give" if you will. Because the lifter haad some give and low oil pressure it damaged the lifter. all collaterial damage simply due to low oil pressure.?.?
I' ready to pull the engine. its possible that the next time Bob sees his car the engine will be on a stand unless I can find something that can be completed by pulling the oil pan or oil pump. FWIW, it might still be worth pulling the engine just for ease of working conditions.
The top of the motor has beensealed so nicely that I don't want to pull it unless I have to.
I have a completely built L67 on an engine stand in my back yard for touchie feelie..

I just ned to understand that the valve guide could have leaked all of a sudden, lasted for 400 miles.
I can except the notion that the hard failure in frez took place because I see how the oil pressure drops while waiting at a traffic signal because we drove the car yesterday but.. I kept the oil pressure up once it fell down into the big red danger zone.

Thanks for the thoughts, keep them coming....

_________________
Best 60' = 1.716
Best ET = 12.186
Best MPH = 112.98