It is currently Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:52 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:03 am 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 Buick Park Ave
The budget is 1500 bucks.

The Philosophy of use is a daily driver that can handle hills, and or icy hills, and get up to highway speeds better than the weak ace 2.2L. It would sometimes pull a small boat, or trailer. It will predominantly be driven on 55 mph roads. I would like to achieve a mpg average of around 30. That is what the tutu currently gets as a bar. More would be a bonus. This is a rusty truck that has more into it than I could sell it for. The plan is to drive it for another 100k min. I don't want to turbo, or s/c, and probably couldn't w/o going over budget considering the extra tuning, and welding that would be required. That may also effect my longevity target. And being a daily, using 87 octane would be nicer on the wallet. I would por 15 the frame, and rust holes for now, and later weld in what needs to be replaced.

The plan is to find a decent L36 donor car for the engine. A wrecked F body would be ideal. The engine would not be rebuilt any further than replacing the intake gaskets, and plenum. Maybe some aluminum valve covers. This will take a few runs to the pick, and pull JY I am sure. Parts Galore be the one, for those familiar. I know many of the Michigan guys are.

My current debate to myself is the transmission. That's the topic I would like to ask for some suggestions currently. The truck already has a 5 speed. The F body manuals were also a 5 speed. If I were to dismantle a 3800 F body, this would be mostly plug and play as far as the PCM goes. But, would my current 5 speed clutch parts be compatible with the F body trans? And the 6 speed T56 is soooo tempting. The LS motors cruise 6th gear at like 2k rpm @ 70mph, and 30 mpg. I really wonder what a 3800 could do with that kind of gearing. I know I would need a bell housing adapter to mate the BoP block to the Chevy trans. Not sure what/if a T56 would need when it comes to pcm signals, or information sensors.

_________________
Image
92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

yourgrandma wrote:
High


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:55 am 
Offline
Posts like an LN3
Posts like an LN3
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 3:53 pm
Posts: 567
Location: Farmington Hills, Michigan
Year and Trim: 99 Regal GS
Sounds like a solid plan!

AFAIK the 3800 should bolt right up to the transmission in your truck right now. Not sure about the clutch though, but I'd bet you'll have to use the F-body 3800 clutch. Also the F-body's used hydraulic clutches too so you might run into issues there if the truck uses a fork.

I'm currently in the middle of swapping an L36 and T5 from a 98 Camaro into my 82 Grand Prix, though the process has been haulted due to a lack of funding and time. I am debating my options and considering putting a t-56 in it or even just going all out and putting in an LS motor. I did find some research about the T-56 swap though: here and here. The adapters I found here won't even be in stock until May from what I was told. I also believe you'll have a hard time finding a T-56 at a decent enough price.

_________________
Image

2009 Chevy Silverado 2500HD crew cab, 6.0, Z71. The project mover.
1999 Buick Regal GS 3.4" pulley,SLP headers, fwi, pnp, gemini chain w/ other trans mods, 12" brakes, GR2's, STB's, 34mm front sway bar; The Summer DD
1982 Pontiac Grand Prix L36 and an hx35 turbo; It's pretty quick Mod list here


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:45 am 
Offline
Certified Bonneville Nut
Certified Bonneville Nut
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 8:53 am
Posts: 5345
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Year and Trim: 1993 Buick Park Avenue
1994 Buick Regal Custom
At a $1500 budget, it sounds like job one is finding a cheap donor, and not being too picky about it.

Do you have your heart set on a 3800, or would you consider other options that present themselves, like a wrecked 4.3 or similar?

_________________
~Randall~
ImageImage

1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:28 pm 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 Buick Park Ave
bs009 wrote:
Sounds like a solid plan!

AFAIK the 3800 should bolt right up to the transmission in your truck right now. Not sure about the clutch though, but I'd bet you'll have to use the F-body 3800 clutch. Also the F-body's used hydraulic clutches too so you might run into issues there if the truck uses a fork.

I didn't realize the 2.2 shared the same bell housing pattern, but according to wiki, you are correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_GM ... g_patterns
Hmm, that makes things a little easier, and less costly if I were to go that route. I thought the F body T5s had a differnt bellhousing to accI wonder how well the current trans will hold to a L36 if it was intended for such a smaller engine. Were the F body T5s any different? Or is a T5 the same regardless of platform?

I have messed with a few 4T60s, but I am not very familiar with manuals, so I am not sure about the forks. Something to think about.

bs009 wrote:
I'm currently in the middle of swapping an L36 and T5 from a 98 Camaro into my 82 Grand Prix, though the process has been haulted due to a lack of funding and time. I am debating my options and considering putting a t-56 in it or even just going all out and putting in an LS motor. I did find some research about the T-56 swap though: here and here. The adapters I found here won't even be in stock until May from what I was told. I also believe you'll have a hard time finding a T-56 at a decent enough price.


I have browsed of a few of threads on the s10 forums over the years. I will have to check out the ones you have shared too. Thanks for sharing.

I haven't searched for one. I ball parked 500 bucks in my head for one, or $75 if I get lucky enough in my parts galore diving.

RJolly87 wrote:
At a $1500 budget, it sounds like job one is finding a cheap donor, and not being too picky about it.

Do you have your heart set on a 3800, or would you consider other options that present themselves, like a wrecked 4.3 or similar?

If I am able to find a wrecked F body on CL, that would be great. If not, most parts would likely be sourced from a pick&pull JY. Last time I was there (which has been a while) the V6 motors were $150. L36 motors are plentiful there, so I should have an assortment of ones to choose from.

I have my heart pretty well set on a 3.8. I would say that I am still open to other swap suggestions though, but I am unaware of anything that would be as efficient, and reliable as an L36. 4.3s are good engines, but I feel they are less efficient, and slightly less reliable than a 3.8. 350 would be pretty much the same swap as a 4.3, but even less efficiency.

_________________
Image
92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

yourgrandma wrote:
High


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:49 am 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:38 pm
Posts: 1855
Location: Lincoln Park, Mi
Year and Trim: 2004 GTO
I remember seeing a Jeep Comanche with an L36 back in the day on cardomain, it was pretty nice. I know there is a 3800 firebird at Martins in Brownstown, couldn't tell ya if it was auto or manual though.

_________________
Image
-Ryan
2004 GTO....LS1, 6MT
96 SSEi...September 2010 COTM........GONE
04 GTP comp G.... December 2015 COTM........GONE
2001 Volkswagen Passat, 1.8T 5MT......winter beater

yourgrandma wrote:
Hi.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:56 am 
Offline
Certified Bonneville Nut
Certified Bonneville Nut
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 6:11 pm
Posts: 8951
Location: Chicago, IL
Year and Trim: 2003 SLE
Beware that the T5 is known to be a weak Trans.

_________________
-Car Guy Carl
"Penelope" - 2003 SLE - 180k Miles
"Sydney" - 2000 Honda S2000 - 57k miles
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 1:09 pm 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 Buick Park Ave
nos4blood70 wrote:
Beware that the T5 is known to be a weak Trans.

I have heard this before, but it was generally in threads where the build included boost, or 8 cylinders. Do you have any incite on how well they hold up to a stock L36?

_________________
Image
92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

yourgrandma wrote:
High


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:26 pm 
Offline
Certified Bonneville Nut
Certified Bonneville Nut
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 4403
Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
Isn't the T5 stock for the F-body 3800? I don't see why it wouldn't work out long-term.

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800, T5, T-tops, Getting ready for some major upgrades!
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:58 pm 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 Buick Park Ave
MattStrike wrote:
Isn't the T5 stock for the F-body 3800? I don't see why it wouldn't work out long-term.

That's what I am thinking for the most part, but I am just not sure of their longevity when a 3.8 is in front of it. Just because it was stock, doesn't mean it will necessarily go over 100K. FWIW, this current T5 behind the tutu is original with 200k on it. Still running strong with no grinding, or slipping. But typing that 200k makes me think I should strongly consider a rebuild if I stick with the current trans.

_________________
Image
92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

yourgrandma wrote:
High


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 3:58 pm 
Offline
Posts like an LN3
Posts like an LN3
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 3:53 pm
Posts: 567
Location: Farmington Hills, Michigan
Year and Trim: 99 Regal GS
There's a lot of variation in the T5 over the years. They came in a lot of different cars but it seems like the mustang's usually had the best versions of the T5. The best T5's to get from the factory were the "World Class" t5's which were "rated" for 300ft-lbs of torque. That's what's used in the 3800 F-body's. It'll probably depend on what year the S-10 is to determine whether it had a world class T5 or not. You'll also need the year to figure out how many splines are your truck's input shaft too.
Also, the S10 shifter is in a different location than the F-body shifter so you'll have to swap tailhousings if you switch to the f-body transmission.

Everything I've read about them seems to point to issues with shifting past 6200 rpm and 2nd and 3rd missing shifts once you put a lot of power into them. Also the case doesn't stand up to a lot of abuse. There's plenty of guys running stock T5's in their modded V8 mustangs without too many issues, but then again there are guys who have broken quite a few T5's.
You shouldn't have any real problems with it behind an L36 besides normal maintenance.

_________________
Image

2009 Chevy Silverado 2500HD crew cab, 6.0, Z71. The project mover.
1999 Buick Regal GS 3.4" pulley,SLP headers, fwi, pnp, gemini chain w/ other trans mods, 12" brakes, GR2's, STB's, 34mm front sway bar; The Summer DD
1982 Pontiac Grand Prix L36 and an hx35 turbo; It's pretty quick Mod list here


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:59 pm 
Offline
Retired Site Developer
Retired Site Developer
User avatar

Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:30 pm
Posts: 20959
Location: MN/IA
Year and Trim: '17 Silverado 1500
The T56 would be a bad trans, and blow your budget to smithereens. A good used one is $2k by itself. It's way too close-ratio and 6th is way too low, not to mention that it has a huge case which would likely require floor pan surgery. You'd also probably need to drop your axle ratio quite a bit to get it so it's not an absolute dog.

Stick with the T5. I've seen guys using them in older full-size trucks with little problem, behind V8's.

_________________
Bye Bye:
Image
RIP sandrock
Sirius wrote:
Think about it. You’re tooling down the road in your Prius, knowing full-well that this thing being green is as big a sham as federally mandated ethanol-enriched gas, Russia pulling out of Ukraine, and Obamacare.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 8:12 pm 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 Buick Park Ave
This truck is a 2000, so I guess it is the 300 ft/lb version. Although This says the world class versions were 88-92. I don't think they would revise them to be less than that 300 ft/lb. A stock L36 is 70ft/lbs less than rated. I see little need for 6k shifts for the way I drive this truck. Well, maybe on occasion, but not frequently :twisted: .

Saving this video for later. May be useful. This one too of course.


00Beast wrote:
The T56 would be a bad trans, and blow your budget to smithereens. A good used one is $2k by itself. It's way too close-ratio and 6th is way too low, not to mention that it has a huge case which would likely require floor pan surgery. You'd also probably need to drop your axle ratio quite a bit to get it so it's not an absolute dog.

Stick with the T5. I've seen guys using them in older full-size trucks with little problem, behind V8's.


I have been searching around, and as you mentioned, the cost alone is an issue. I didn't realize they were so expensive. Considering the cost of a T56, your guys' input, and reading up more on the T5, I think I am sold on keeping the existing trans, or at least a T5 of some varying gear ratio.

Now I must keep my sights out for a donor car.

Good info on T5s here.

_________________
Image
92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

yourgrandma wrote:
High


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:04 pm 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 Buick Park Ave
While trying to identify gear ratios, I found that the 96+ manual s10s got the NV1500. Not a T5. The F bodies had the T5 through 2002, so I thought the S series did too. I was wrong.

I am having a difficult time finding a power rating for these, but one article said they made them for 4 cylinder engines, and that the manufacturer made a NV3500 for the applications with more torque. So it would probably not be a good idea to use the existing trans for a L36.

_________________
Image
92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

yourgrandma wrote:
High


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:33 am 
Offline
Posts like an LN3
Posts like an LN3
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2008 11:58 am
Posts: 486
Location: Cincinnati OH
Year and Trim: 03SSEI, 00SSEI, 92SE(sold), 93SSE/SC, 87GTA, 01TA
Here's some info on T5's for you - T5 FAQ - Everything we know about the T5
Although not a torque monster, I wouldn't have any worries at all using it behind an unmodified 3800.

From the gear ratio table in the 9th post you see that some came with a .63 OD and also the ratio of 1st to top gear on the T5P.76 is almost identical that of a T56.

If you don't want to use hydraulic, the '83 F body T5's came with a mechanical clutch.
A 4th gen F-body PCM would get you going but you may need a custom tune if you want best performance / mileage.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:08 pm 
Offline
LE Member

Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:34 pm
Posts: 4
Year and Trim: 1996 Olds 88;
Wrecked 1996 Olds 88; 3800 motor

I don't understand too much of what you guys are talking about (I'm a novice mechanic), but if you're looking for a 3800 engine, I have one that isn't going to be doing me much good. I have a wrecked '96 Olds 88. Engine is good, right around 140-145 k miles. The right rear side took the hit. Rear door is crashed, but still opens, rear quarter panel is wrecked, but the trunk lid still works. The rear wheel is tilted in and I believe the strut mount is shoved in.

If you're interested in the motor (it would probably come with the rest of the car attached) let me know. I'm not sure I want to let it go to the insurance company for salvage.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2015 1:43 pm 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 Buick Park Ave
pm sent.

_________________
Image
92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

yourgrandma wrote:
High


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:38 pm 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 Buick Park Ave
As of now, I have the F body UIM, fuel rail, accessory/belt mounts, alt, P/S pump+lines, engine mounts/brackets, wiring harness, PCM, ICM, Coils, T-Stat housing, Oil Pan+p/u, and valve covers.

I have left on my list:

radiator
E.M.s (maybe Headers)
L36
T5

Any suggestions for items I should add to the shopping list?

If I went with the black pacesetters, I would be left with a $1000 budget, or about 800 if I went with the chrome version.

_________________
Image
92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

yourgrandma wrote:
High


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 7:44 pm 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 2363
Location: Michigan
Year and Trim: 2002 Buick Park Ave
bs009 wrote:
I'm currently in the middle of swapping an L36 and T5 from a 98 Camaro into my 82 Grand Prix, though the process has been haulted due to a lack of funding and time. I am debating my options and considering putting a t-56 in it or even just going all out and putting in an LS motor.

Ben, if you do change your mind, and decide to go with an LS motor, keep me mind for the L36, and T5 you have in your parts car. Or maybe even the car if you would want to save time on disassembling.

_________________
Image
92 Olds 98. L67, Gen 3 M62, 2.55 pulley, FWI, PLIM, 1.8 YTs.

yourgrandma wrote:
High


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:55 pm 
Offline
LE Member

Joined: Sun Mar 20, 2016 7:00 pm
Posts: 8
Location: Coastal NC or a buffet near you!
Year and Trim: 1989 Bonneville LE
1993 Roadmaster Ltd
I realize that this might qualify as a thread ressurection, since this one hasnt been active in over a month, but I had to comment on it. Just had to.

I have thought for some years now that the 3.8 F-body setup is way under utilized! I think your idea for the truck is great. These engines arent horsepower monsters, but they beat a 2.2 all to heck and back again, and seem way more efficient than the 4.3, as previously mentioned. They are a reasonable space-saving design as well, which means they could be shoehorned into many an engine bay. I have seen a number of smaller cars have 350 motors crammed under the hood for show or racing purposes, which is awesome, but I want a car I can drive daily. A Chevette with the 3800 would be double the horsepower, a great daily driver, and still a WICKED sleeper at the red light (although I do not condone street racing, who doesnt want to at least smoke their tires and give the guy in the Honda Civic a mild heart attack?). I'm goona spend some time online looking for 3800 swaps just to see what others have done. You, sir, are inspiring!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 12:21 pm 
Offline
Posts like a Northstar
Posts like a Northstar
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 11:38 pm
Posts: 1855
Location: Lincoln Park, Mi
Year and Trim: 2004 GTO
ratmonster wrote:
I realize that this might qualify as a thread ressurection, since this one hasnt been active in over a month, but I had to comment on it. Just had to.


Just about a year over a month :wink:

Wes, did you ever make any progress on this?

_________________
Image
-Ryan
2004 GTO....LS1, 6MT
96 SSEi...September 2010 COTM........GONE
04 GTP comp G.... December 2015 COTM........GONE
2001 Volkswagen Passat, 1.8T 5MT......winter beater

yourgrandma wrote:
Hi.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Related topics
 Topics   Author   Replies   Views   Last post 
There are no new unread posts for this topic. vin L Series 1 3800 NA help please.

PopaTim

5

1294

Mon Dec 01, 2008 11:28 pm

PopaTim View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. 3800 Won't Start

94SilverSSEi

11

1445

Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:23 pm

94SilverSSEi View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. 3800 grand prix

popcornplaya83

3

1163

Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:41 pm

popcornplaya83 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. 3800 grand prix

popcornplaya83

4

1131

Thu May 17, 2012 10:54 pm

popcornplaya83 View the latest post

There are no new unread posts for this topic. 3800 Firebird/Camaro

[ Go to pageGo to page: 1, 2 ]

nos4blood70

24

3747

Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:40 am

nos4blood70 View the latest post

 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group


phpBB SEO