Never thought I'd even consider one of these machines, but after my 2000 Toyota Solara V6 SLE blew a rod (250K) over the weekend it was time to go hunting. Apparently for a high mileage, old, cheap car the PB is a great choice, so found this one at a fantastic local dealer (yes such a thing apparently does exist). Haven't handed over the $2900+TTL yet, planning to do that tomorrow. Found this board and thought I'd sign up to see if there's anyone here who's going to say NO DON'T DO IT!

Car is in lovely condition, only thing broke is the sunroof which is OK with me. 142K on the engine, hopefully it will double that without costing me a fortune. Reading about the transmission though - how many of you have had to have it replaced? No idea if this one has. Don't seem to have any issues with the electrics either apart from the sunroof.

Am I making a good choice (obviously no one can comment on the specific car, but in general)? Apparently the 3.8 is the way to go for long life.

And the exterior/interior color and condition is A+ - beautiful car, drives superb.

hi, welcome to the club!! you may want to look further into what has and hasn't been done - great bargaining tool to knock down the price.


ask seller for proof of intake manifold gaskets if SSEi and manifold itself for other trims - there should be green antifreeze in the rad, not dexcool orange.

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poverty forces one to do unorthodox things

2000 SSEi
past rides:
1996 SSEi
1992 GTP
1987 Grand Am

Thanks for the welcome! If it's dexcool (orange) which I think it is, is that a deal breaker? If so, why? Mechanical novice here I'm afraid. A quick google gave me this thread

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2090826

that suggests it may be fine if changed reasonably regularly.

All advice welcomed!

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Hmmm, here's a list of cars I've owned: Fiat Panda; Fiat Strada Cabriolet (on the list of the ten worst Italian cars ever); Subaru Legacy (biggest money pit ever placed on to wheels); Hyundai Accent; Hyundai Elantra; Hyundai Sonata; 2xKia Sportage; Honda Element; Nissan Sentra; Buick Rendezvous (blew engine, had it replaced, got t-boned a month later); Kia Rondo (blew engine, replaced under warranty, still going 'strong'); Eagle Talon TSi AWD 5spd (most fun I've ever had behind the wheel); Toyota Solara (RIP, another engine toasted) and now Pontiac Bonneville! I think that is it.

1) Transmission. The 4T65E does have longevity issues, but under most normal circumstances, it will last the life of the vehicle. The people that have the most issue are those funelling a lot of extra power from a boosted L67 V6, or even later LS4 powered vehicles with it behind them (I.E. Impala SS's and Grand Prix GXP's). If properly maintained, under normal power levels and most driving situations, the trans will be fine.

2) DexCool. yes, it is orange. This is a never ending debate. There are those who hate it who swear that gasket issues are caused by it and that it causes catastrophic failures. Then there are guys like me that worked on them for a living, and will tell you that as long as it is properly maintained, and routine checks of it are done, it'll be 100% fine. Just the same as the old Ethylene-Glycol (the old green stuff) before it. The issue, and it affects both types of coolant, is when air is entered into the system.

In the end, if the oil looks clean (normal brown color, from mileage is acceptable) and the coolant looks like tang, that means the two AREN'T mixing and that you're fine. If either look like a "milkshake" there are issues.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

I just noticed in your pic, the rear reflector by the passengers brake light is distorted, is it the pic or is the reflector separating? - a fairly common issue for some.

_________________
poverty forces one to do unorthodox things

2000 SSEi
past rides:
1996 SSEi
1992 GTP
1987 Grand Am

I'm wondering if that is the reflection of the wall behind.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

Thanks for the help! Here's my deal: Been off work since 2011 due to heart failure (pacemaker working well now) and my credit is shot. SS taken my disability away from me because my heart function is much better, which is a good thing! Got a great job that I'm starting 7/10, it involves a lot of driving. So of course on Saturday my 2000 Solara with over 200K blew and knocks like a insurance salesman. Must have a car that stands a great chance of being a reliable runner for a couple of years until my credit score crawls out of the toilet. $3-4K is my max. Trying to find something that will do the job for that price is driving me nuts, but i think this '01 3.8 Bonneville may be the answer.

Of the issues I've been reading about (until 3am) on these boards, this one has the bubbling over the gas cap, the sunroof doesn't work, the steering has that very slight feedback at low speeds, and there's nice clean looking Dexcool in the coolant reservoir. I am a minus 10 on the 0-10 mechanic scale, couldn't change a belt/sensor/alternator - can hardly change my own clothes without my wife's help

All the threads about MAF/LIM/UIM/DIM/SUM/ETC are scaring me to be honest. However it drives wonderfully, shifts smooth (although it did slightly 'clunk' from P to D one time) and looks very very nice. Just how common are these 'little' but show stopping issues? The engine looks very well maintained, belt looks new-ish due to the condition of the printed info on it, lots of the tubes 'n sh1t look new, no corrosion, I peered through the front wheels and every doodad I can see looks clean. I trust the dealer 100%, they get their stock from main dealer trades, never auctions. This is verified 1 owner, who traded it in for a Caddy.

I am most concerned about the transmission after reading that it's a 2K+ replacement. Then does that steering issue have to be addressed or has it been like that for life and will continue like it is without getting dangerous? Like I said, it is very slight.

There's no sign that water has ever got in, all electrics work, windows fine, AC great, ave MPG via the trip computer was reading 22.6 which sounds OK...

I don't know if the gaskets have been done, but no sign of anything other than minor leaks... can't expect it to be 100% clean and clear after 142K.

Thoughts?

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Hmmm, here's a list of cars I've owned: Fiat Panda; Fiat Strada Cabriolet (on the list of the ten worst Italian cars ever); Subaru Legacy (biggest money pit ever placed on to wheels); Hyundai Accent; Hyundai Elantra; Hyundai Sonata; 2xKia Sportage; Honda Element; Nissan Sentra; Buick Rendezvous (blew engine, had it replaced, got t-boned a month later); Kia Rondo (blew engine, replaced under warranty, still going 'strong'); Eagle Talon TSi AWD 5spd (most fun I've ever had behind the wheel); Toyota Solara (RIP, another engine toasted) and now Pontiac Bonneville! I think that is it.

- Bubbling gas cap area - a problem on most GM H-Body (Bonneville) and W-Body (Grand Prix's/Lumina's/Impala's/Monte Carlo's/yada yada). It is purely a cosmetic issue. Behind the fuel filler assembly, GM wrapped it with a foam material to absorb fuel spill. Problem is, that hold moisture, and then it rusts out from behind.

- Sunroofs. the main issue, and this will apply to every sunroof equipped vehicle on planet earth, is the drains getting clogged. Yes occasionally the motor/gear/track mechanism will go, but the more prevalent issue is water spill over into the passenger compartment from clogged drains.

- MAF's aren't typically an issue

- LIM/UIM manifold gaskets are where the issue with Dexcool comes in. Since you have clean Dexcool and clean oil, either the UIM/LIM isn't broken or has been already fixed.

-Steering wheel "clunk" at low speeds is common on virtually every GM FWD vehicle. It doesn't affect handling, turning, or safety. It's just an annoyance. Plenty of threads here, including my own on how to remedy this, even for non-mechanically inclined people.

- Transmission - I've already said my peace on that. Not much more I can offer you. You're talking about a 16 - 17 year old car, but seems to have lower mileage. So I would say, it's got plenty of useful life in it. Shifting rough out of park is nothing more than weight of the vehicle on the pawl, due to being on some form of incline, inside the transmission. No harm done. If it seems to shift hard shifting from park to reverse to drive or between gears, I might offer up that the front lower motor mount is busted, which is another common issue on these cars. Look up "Hockey puck mount". That is the best solution.

All in all, any GM vehicle with a 3800 V6 (such as this Bonneville), is a pretty solid choice. These engines are pretty much bullet proof once you get past some of the nuances. I'm sure that there are plenty nagging things with Solara's too. Post up a question here about how many people on this board have 200k, 300k, and more on their 3800's. You'd come up with a shorter list of people that DON'T have that kind of mileage... The car itself is actually very solid too.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

no, like above, just the intake gaskets so no damage yet, just change the coolant and flush fill with the green high quality concentrated 3.78l bottle. if you get the 50 /50 you get 4 l of coolant : you get the concentrate and get 4 l + 4 l water = 8 l of same strength coolant for about the same price.

_________________
poverty forces one to do unorthodox things

2000 SSEi
past rides:
1996 SSEi
1992 GTP
1987 Grand Am

Word of note, if you do what is being posted above, be sure to completely flush out the Dexcool out of the entire system... Meaning cooling system, heater core, etc... The best way to do this is with a coolant exchange machine. You can do it manually too, just a more tedious process.

Reason being, old Ethylene-Glycol (the green stuff), doesn't mix with OAT and HOAT type coolants. Dexcool is an OAT (Organic Acid Technology. HOAT is Hybrid Organic Acid Technology). Chrysler G-05 is a HOAT.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

It sounds like it may be setting up to be a respectable specimen of a Bonneville.

I would just keep an eye on coolant usage, and you can handle the rest as it comes. Once it starts ingesting coolant, then worry.

_________________
~Randall~


1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place

Very grateful for the responses. To be clear, there will be no chance of me digging in to any maintenance myself - have neither the knowledge or the location to do more than check the oil and refill the windshield wash. Could probably change a tire on a good day with an extra bowl of Grape Nuts for breakfast. So ALL maintenance (routine and non routine) will have to be done by my very trusted mechanic. They have been known to us since ~2000 when my wife taught their kids in band class. Trust them 100%, so that's not an issue. Still not cheap, even though they have cut us a break many times on undercharging for the amount of time they spend on our vehicles - especially the '97 Talon TSi AWD 5spd ("Growly") I owned for a glorious 18 months before I became a Foster Parent and needed something else! Awesome car. When it worked. Can't afford that sort of excess these days, can hardly afford my Grape Nuts.

So (brace yourselves) I still haven't pulled the trigger on the 'ville, am looking at a couple of '05 ZX4 STs.... Cheaper, newer, 5spd (which I miss like crazy) and have the fairly trustworthy Mazda sourced Duratec 2.3 4cyl.

Decisions, defingcisions.

_________________
Hmmm, here's a list of cars I've owned: Fiat Panda; Fiat Strada Cabriolet (on the list of the ten worst Italian cars ever); Subaru Legacy (biggest money pit ever placed on to wheels); Hyundai Accent; Hyundai Elantra; Hyundai Sonata; 2xKia Sportage; Honda Element; Nissan Sentra; Buick Rendezvous (blew engine, had it replaced, got t-boned a month later); Kia Rondo (blew engine, replaced under warranty, still going 'strong'); Eagle Talon TSi AWD 5spd (most fun I've ever had behind the wheel); Toyota Solara (RIP, another engine toasted) and now Pontiac Bonneville! I think that is it.

Bonneville > than any ford rebadged econo-sh*tbox.

Seriously though, what your budget is, anything you get, be it GM, ford/mazda, etc, is probably going to have a higher probability for needing something. Just pure age/wear.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

Yup, I knew I'd get that immediate response! And basically I agree - but the ZX4 was FUN to drive! I was very surprised. Lots of internet dwellers love that one, and the '05-'07 Focus seems to get pretty good reliability all round from what I can tell on various sites. But yeah, nothing like sitting in the 'ville behind that 3.8. Speaking of which, I researched the make/model that used this engine, poked around online, and found a '98 Olds 88 that seems to be that Holy Grail of used cars - the little old couple owners, tucked away in the garage for night night every evening, driven an average of under 4K per year.... Going to check it out tomorrow first thing! If I can talk the dealer down to a good price I may have found the ideal car for an old fat cheap guy like myself.

_________________
Hmmm, here's a list of cars I've owned: Fiat Panda; Fiat Strada Cabriolet (on the list of the ten worst Italian cars ever); Subaru Legacy (biggest money pit ever placed on to wheels); Hyundai Accent; Hyundai Elantra; Hyundai Sonata; 2xKia Sportage; Honda Element; Nissan Sentra; Buick Rendezvous (blew engine, had it replaced, got t-boned a month later); Kia Rondo (blew engine, replaced under warranty, still going 'strong'); Eagle Talon TSi AWD 5spd (most fun I've ever had behind the wheel); Toyota Solara (RIP, another engine toasted) and now Pontiac Bonneville! I think that is it.

Well, I bought it! Officially a 'villeain now.

_________________
Hmmm, here's a list of cars I've owned: Fiat Panda; Fiat Strada Cabriolet (on the list of the ten worst Italian cars ever); Subaru Legacy (biggest money pit ever placed on to wheels); Hyundai Accent; Hyundai Elantra; Hyundai Sonata; 2xKia Sportage; Honda Element; Nissan Sentra; Buick Rendezvous (blew engine, had it replaced, got t-boned a month later); Kia Rondo (blew engine, replaced under warranty, still going 'strong'); Eagle Talon TSi AWD 5spd (most fun I've ever had behind the wheel); Toyota Solara (RIP, another engine toasted) and now Pontiac Bonneville! I think that is it.

Congrats. What happened with the Olds you were talking about above?

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

I looked more closely at the photos and there was some damage/corrosion on the hood. Or it was just a poor photo. Either way, I didn't even go check it out.

Very happy so far - my second pre-purchase test drive was on a short stretch of highway so I could open it up to road trip speed - solid as a rock all round.

I'll be sure to pass on my thoughts here as I get used to the car. I really think it is going to be ideal for my needs - here's to a few years of relatively trouble free motoring!



Edit: Oh, and here's another sign this car has been well looked after - at the end of the paperwork, the sales guy hands me two original remotes/key sets including the valet key! How often do you get that on a 17yr old car?

_________________
Hmmm, here's a list of cars I've owned: Fiat Panda; Fiat Strada Cabriolet (on the list of the ten worst Italian cars ever); Subaru Legacy (biggest money pit ever placed on to wheels); Hyundai Accent; Hyundai Elantra; Hyundai Sonata; 2xKia Sportage; Honda Element; Nissan Sentra; Buick Rendezvous (blew engine, had it replaced, got t-boned a month later); Kia Rondo (blew engine, replaced under warranty, still going 'strong'); Eagle Talon TSi AWD 5spd (most fun I've ever had behind the wheel); Toyota Solara (RIP, another engine toasted) and now Pontiac Bonneville! I think that is it.

Excellent.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

OK, been reading through the owners manual... Didn't realize they actually tell you to use nothing but Dexcool. Did Pontiac/GM ever admit that they made a mistake with that? Does GM agree that Dexcool causes damage to the original gaskets that were used? What if my car has had replacements - would Dexcool be the best choice? Can I just fill mine with wine and mulling spices so on winter days I'll be able to have a nice warming drink when I stop for gas?

(The last question was a joke, btw)

I'm going to discuss this with my mechanic, and will follow their advice. Can't follow the advice of people here, because then I'd need a car with 27 separate cooling systems.

The best news so far: The Boss has had her first drive, and loves it :D

_________________
Hmmm, here's a list of cars I've owned: Fiat Panda; Fiat Strada Cabriolet (on the list of the ten worst Italian cars ever); Subaru Legacy (biggest money pit ever placed on to wheels); Hyundai Accent; Hyundai Elantra; Hyundai Sonata; 2xKia Sportage; Honda Element; Nissan Sentra; Buick Rendezvous (blew engine, had it replaced, got t-boned a month later); Kia Rondo (blew engine, replaced under warranty, still going 'strong'); Eagle Talon TSi AWD 5spd (most fun I've ever had behind the wheel); Toyota Solara (RIP, another engine toasted) and now Pontiac Bonneville! I think that is it.

My mother had one for 10 years and yes hers had the trans go kind of early (130k) right when she bought it. Same color and year as yours... If it shifts well, your in business... My mother got 275k and sold it when a lifter started making noise... she took good care of it even having the A/C repaired, unheard of on a 200k+ car in MI... she had the fuel door rust pretty severly but other than some rusty brake residue on the alloys, the car shined they day we sold it

_________________
Roads... Where we're going, we don't need roads