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 Post subject: L67 swap
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:39 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 4425
Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
I know, I know, I have a problem...

I'm planning to L67 swap (or top swap) the Trofeo. But looks like there might be a bit of a snag. The Trofeo, being years ahead of it's own technology, uses the serial data line to share information from the PCM and BCM to the IPC.

Basically, from what I remember from my OBD-1 days, each PCM would transmit data on the serial bus in a specific format, and that format varied from vehicle to vehicle. In either case, it sounds like if I want to keep the cluster and digital display functional, it sounds like my PCM options are extremely limited to the one that's already in there. So no OBD-2, can't use the '93 SSEi PCM, etc.

I've found a single cryptic reference to somebody that had done it on an '89 or something like that. I'm still researching, cars like the Reatta and Riviera from this generation would run into a similar issue I'd think. So if any of you that still use the forums can recall one of these builds to give me something to go by, I'd appreciate it.

The original idea/plan for this build was to use the '93 L67 drivetrain I have, and either convert it to OBD-2 or use the '93 SSEi PCM. But none of the inputs to for the cluster gauges (except the tach) are analog.

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Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
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Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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 Post subject: Re: L67 swap
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:19 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 4425
Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
OK, a few builds I've managed to find thus far.

1st: LN3 top swap (kept the original computer and had a custom PROM burned)
http://forums.aaca.org/topic/79774-supe ... -its-real/

2nd: Series one swap and then series 2 swap. Looks like again, had the existing PCM tuned to work:
http://www.theautoshop.net/SuperchargedTrofeo.htm

Looks like people have been getting their OBD-1 PCMs tuned to work with the L67. I don't want to do that, but it's looking like it's basically the only option if I want to keep the electronics in the vehicle functional.

I'm thinking the only other way around this is to piggyback the Olds ECM, let it read the various sensors and think it's doing something, while the engine/trans are controlled by the OBD-2 PCM. I'd have to check all the wiring diagrams, I doubt I could get some functions to work correctly (fuel econ for example) but at least the dash wouldn't be hacked and/or loss of all functionality. But I'd have a far superior PCM.

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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 Post subject: Re: L67 swap
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 11:47 pm
Posts: 6015
Location: Philly
Year and Trim: 95 SLE
Does tunerCATs support it?

I wrote a guide on tuning OBD1 before but I think it got lost in the forum shifts. It's really not that bad.

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95 SLE... a keeper. 241k miles. Low and Slow.
98 Infiniti vq35'd i30: 13.3@104mph, 30MPG Hwy
07 Infiniti G35s 6MT
07 Ducati Monster S2R 800 with DS1000 swap
05 Suzuki DRZ400S
83 Yamaha IT175K
74 Yamaha DT175: brap brap, brap
72 Yamaha DS7: '74 RD250 swap, JL chambers

Info on dropping a 92-99: Here.


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 Post subject: Re: L67 swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 11:47 pm
Posts: 6015
Location: Philly
Year and Trim: 95 SLE
So I found a post I made 10 years ago on w-body.com for the LQ1 but it might help:

https://www.w-body.com/topic/34441-obd1 ... ent-563549

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Image
95 SLE... a keeper. 241k miles. Low and Slow.
98 Infiniti vq35'd i30: 13.3@104mph, 30MPG Hwy
07 Infiniti G35s 6MT
07 Ducati Monster S2R 800 with DS1000 swap
05 Suzuki DRZ400S
83 Yamaha IT175K
74 Yamaha DT175: brap brap, brap
72 Yamaha DS7: '74 RD250 swap, JL chambers

Info on dropping a 92-99: Here.


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: L67 swap
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 8:53 am
Posts: 5353
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Year and Trim: 1993 Buick Park Avenue
1994 Buick Regal Custom
I have seen people do insane things with Raspberry Pi's these days, and part of me wonder if something of the like can be set up to interface with your cluster.

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1993 Buick Park Avenue - 197k - Some odds and ends done - Simply won't die
1994 Buick Regal - 78k - Bone stock - Always ready for a good kicking
1990 Oldsmobile 88 - Gone to a better place


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 Post subject: Re: L67 swap
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:59 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 4425
Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
I have thought about getting into OBD-1 tuning a lot over the last 15 years. I just didn't really know what I was doing, and back then the cost was too much. A quick glance at tunercat doesn't seem to have anything for the '92 toronado but I should probably do some real research there.

The problem with the raspberry pi thing is I have no idea where to even begin with that.

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: L67 swap
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 11:47 pm
Posts: 6015
Location: Philly
Year and Trim: 95 SLE
So it's probably a 27C256 and you could probably run it off a L27 bin. I just don't know what that means for all the interface gizmos if anything at all.

I tune from a 94 L27 bin that I imported most of the L36 tables into. I also tune on the fly using an eprom emulator.

_________________
Image
95 SLE... a keeper. 241k miles. Low and Slow.
98 Infiniti vq35'd i30: 13.3@104mph, 30MPG Hwy
07 Infiniti G35s 6MT
07 Ducati Monster S2R 800 with DS1000 swap
05 Suzuki DRZ400S
83 Yamaha IT175K
74 Yamaha DT175: brap brap, brap
72 Yamaha DS7: '74 RD250 swap, JL chambers

Info on dropping a 92-99: Here.


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 Post subject: Re: L67 swap
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:55 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 4425
Location: Dearborn, MI
Year and Trim: '93 SSEi
'05 STS-4
'97 Camaro
'97 LeSabre
Yeah, I'd have to look into it, but what I think happens is that the ECM operates in some kind of 'data out' mode - perhaps the ALDL cover has a resistor jumpered pins to enable that - and the IPC looks for that message and just reads the data sent. The ECM OS should handle all of that separately from the actual tune.

Another thought, again my knowledge here is very limited, is could I take the PROM out of the '93 SSEi ECM and would it plug and play with the '92 Toronado ECM?

The last time I really did anything with these things was with the '86-'87 LG3 stuff, so my memory might be missing a few details. I had a crapload of different PROMs I'd grabbed out of salvage yards from basically every different computer/configuration that motor was used (Rivieras, Toronados, Cutlass Ciera, etc...) I had even grabbed most of the CRT system, and it's matching ECM/PCM from an '87 LG3 car (that I never got around to finishing), all in an attempt to diagnose why that motor never ran right. Of course, I kinda gave up with that and L67 swapped. But I thought I remembered that the PROMs were interchangeable. I'll have to check the Olds ECM and the CSM to see if there's any insight there.

_________________
Blow all the things! Wait, I meant boost. Boost!
Image

Runs:
'93 Pontiac Bonneville SSEi - Twincharged, manual, and lots more! Build thread
'97 Chevy Camaro - 3800 supercharged, T5, T-tops
'05 Cadillac STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Olds Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'84 GMC Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 Buick LeSabre - L67 winter DD
'92 Pontiac Bonneville SSE future project

Doesn't run:
'87 Buick LeSabre T-type - future victim
'67 Buick LeSabre - future victim


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: L67 swap
PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 11:47 pm
Posts: 6015
Location: Philly
Year and Trim: 95 SLE
So the proms might be the same but the whole removable MEMCAL (memory calibration) chip might be different with a different socket at the PCM board. PROMS are sometimes soldered under the calibration chip on the MEMCAL. The w-body link gives an example of an adapter that lets you plug the memcal into it, has a socket for a PROM/EPROM and only connects the calibration chip portion of the MEMCAL. That way you don't have to relocate the cal chip to the bottom and solder in a socket.

_________________
Image
95 SLE... a keeper. 241k miles. Low and Slow.
98 Infiniti vq35'd i30: 13.3@104mph, 30MPG Hwy
07 Infiniti G35s 6MT
07 Ducati Monster S2R 800 with DS1000 swap
05 Suzuki DRZ400S
83 Yamaha IT175K
74 Yamaha DT175: brap brap, brap
72 Yamaha DS7: '74 RD250 swap, JL chambers

Info on dropping a 92-99: Here.


Top
 Profile  
 
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