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 Post subject: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:35 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 6
Year and Trim: 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SLE
F.Y.I- Yes I have searched, but it is nice to get current responses to things from active members.

2005 GXP, 43k on her. Needs tires. Small cosmetics with tree branch damage on rear sail panels, 2 curbed wheels.
Needs tires .

Besides the usual Death* V8 and all it's painful joy, it runs smooth, drives great . It is a very nice car. Clean and 1 owner.

Problem is no one likes to work on them, they have short shelf life . Every single person I have talked too about it, every single search shows nothing but a headache.
I can do limited mechanical work, and if this were to become a primary vehicle, might as well chop my balls off and buy a camry with my under 10k budget.

SO,.. Given my love for Pontiac since the age of six in 1979, should I run and be done or dance with the devil?

It is a good deal for around $6k.


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:13 pm 
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Certified Bonneville Nut
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 5827
Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
The answers to your question haven't changed from what you have searched for on here.

If you don't wrench on it yourself for most common things, and don't have a trusted mechanic that wants to work on it for more involved items, I would keep looking for a 3800 V6 version.

Now, mind you (this is my caveat), the N* ISN'T a heap of crap. It is a *dang* fine engine, winning several years of Wards 10 best. It is a very nice piece of work. Smooth and powerful. Overall it IS simple to maintain. The problem is, it is nagged with one primary issue... studs/head issues which plagued early versions and was more a hit or miss nuisance on later years (2005 being a later year). Couple that with the fact that it is a size 10 engine in a size 5 dress, is why mechanics don't like to work on them. It may only be 4.6L, but being a DOHC engine, it is very large on the top-side of the engine, which is what I am referring to with the comment before.

The question becomes... What do you want out of it. Performance, sound, attitude? Or do you want ease of maintenance and overall better "reliability". If you want the first, N*. If the second, 3800 V6.

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:42 pm 
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LE Member

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 6
Year and Trim: 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SLE
Funny you mention with regard to performance / reliability as to what I want out of it. I will take what it gives me as it fits the bill, big car, very good power. It really is a question of how much problems and money spent does anyone want to put up with before selling it.

Otherwise, time to get a loan, slap 10$k down on a used G8 low miles or a 3 year old SS sedan. Be done and pay the piper each month.
Looked at a Lacrosse Super, and tell you what, nice car, small like my GP, but again, little chinks and chunks of problems listed all over the forums, displacement on demand issues, lifter problems, oiling issues on the LS4 etc. So, age old problem of wanting something fun, but GM kills us with reliability issues.
Camry SE is about as fun as watching paint dry. If you want to have no love for what you drive, buy a boring Asian brand on the small and full size platforms. Besides Asian brand supercars, they are all dull brands and no experience behind the wheel.

I just sold a 2004 GP GTP with 34k or so on it. At 29k, the heads went on a supercharged engine. Not the usual intake stuff, the head gaskets went.
Not a cheap fix. So knowing what I dealt with on that car, it really does not bother me if I go to a N*. Just the whining bitches I have for friends who work on the stuff for me. I can do light to medium stuff, interior work, brakes, lines, some other stuff if I take the time and have the time.

I think the answer will be for the price of the car going in, knowing stuff will go on and enjoy the ride while I have it should I go for the GXP


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:26 am 
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Resident Gearhead
Resident Gearhead

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:11 pm
Posts: 2594
Location: Alberta, Canada
Year and Trim: 2004 GXP, 2008 STS, 2020 XT6
Personally, I love my GXP. I've had it for about ten years. Not all of them are bad, not all problems are difficult to fix. They are tight to work on, depending on what needs to be done. I had a transmission problem way back at 30,000km but otherwise, nothing I'd consider horrible. Too many people jump on the bandwagon that these are terrible and the engines are a disaster. GM made another revision to head bolts implemented in the 2004-05 GXP (and SOME 2004 Cadillacs and later) that further reduced the incidence of problems. Sure, there are still problems from time to time.... There's lots of other makes and models that also have head gasket problems, too.

No one is going to make you a guarantee either way. Well, there will be some out there that will claim to promise you will have problems. I think that's narrow minded thinking.

I must be a real sucker for punishment. All three of my cars have a Northstar (STS, DTS, GXP).

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Bose Luxury Sound System w/Touch Screen Navigation, Addition of Factory XM, 2005 MY Antenna, OnStar Upgrade (3G),
RainSense Wipers, Backup Camera, '00 Style Door Panel Courtesy Lights, Heated Washer Solvent, 2X Remote Trunk Release,
Turn Signal Mirrors, Center Console Courtesy Lamp, Rear Outboard Heated Seats, PVD Chrome 18" Factory Rims, Upgraded
Carbon Fibre Appearance Interior Trim, Highly Modified Main Body Harness, Instrument Panel, Door, Door Panel & Headliner
Wiring Harnesses, Custom Fuse Box & Tire and Loading Information Decals, Additional Acoustic Insulation


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:17 am 
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Certified Bonneville Nut
Certified Bonneville Nut
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 4759
Location: SE Michigan
Year and Trim: '99 Montana
'04 Dirtymax
'97 Camaro
'92 Trofeo
I've got two Northstar engines in my driveway. One is from a 05' GXP, at around 180,000 miles on it before the engine had a problem and it wasn't due to the head bolts. The second is in my '05 STS, again about 180k miles on it and it still runs good even though it needs some catch-up maintenance.

I can't comment about what happens between 50k miles and 180k miles, in terms of repairs or maintenance, but to say the engines are still plagued by the head bolt issue doesn't hold water in my book.

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The Fleet:
'93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread
'97 Camaro - Top swap
'05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'99 Montana - top swap 3800
'04 Sierra 2500HD - LLY Duramax

Current project:
Something cool, trust me.

Upcoming projects:
'92 Bonneville SSE
'87 LeSabre T-type
'67 LeSabre

Gone to greener pastures:
'84 Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 LeSabre - Top swap

RIP:
'86 LeSabre - pictures
'93 SE - L67


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:37 pm 
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LE Member

Joined: Tue Feb 28, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 6
Year and Trim: 2000 Pontiac Bonneville SLE
Well, the day went down a path I did not expect.
The Bonneville seller was tight on the price, had another potential buyer and after 2 counter offers in 1 week, It was time to move on. Car needed body work on the sail panels and bumper work front and rear, but clean original GXP.
He started at $7200 ad price and had baloney skins on the car. Told me the price did not include tires, and would buy some cheap used tires to get it to pass.
3 curbed rims, but a real rust free original here in New England.
So, with the work armed for cosmetics, the original offer by me was low, $6k. He balked, said would only do $6700. I buy tires to pass MA inspection, to avoid him having a lemon law liability?... Ummm ok
Think about it this past week. Told him that maybe $6500 would close the deal for me.
It needs work and more I don't see for certain.
So, later in the week we exchange courtesy texts, find out another showing is Sat.
Offered him, $6600. He rebuffed said he would find someone willing to accept the car in the condition for his price as Spring is here now and car should command full price.

Well, told him to let me know today how the showing went. Meanwhile, 25 years of hunting/buying/fiddling with cars, I spotted a STS V8 2005 low mile original owner for sale middle of the state.
Took the ride, she is a puff, and has an extensive maintenance history, except the stud/head work gaskets, so eff it .. Took it for a ride. Reminded me of wife's '06 SRX but with real power, no wimpering about to snap ( and did!) it's timing chains of the 3.6. Such a difference in power the N* V8.
*dang* car shot like a bullett on the highway, and rear wheel drive where it all felt right again.
Waking up from my coma or Caddy induced haze ( felt more like a naked woman in front of me at age 16).. Got down to business, and swung a deal.

Not 15 min later a text came through, the other buyer/voyer of the GXP wanted to think about it, so the guy asks me to submit a offer again, for the fourth time.
Told him it was too late. Explained it needed $1500 in body work,$300 in rim work, $600 in tires easy.
That's just to bring it up to snuff and looking pristine. Explained I had come up to $6600, $100 less than his original counter.
I was willing to fall on the red arrow and fix her up and enjoy the car, even with the inevitable engine issues around the bend.

Anyhow, I plan to hang around the forum, my elderly Dad has a mint '01 SLE and do enjoy keeping it up for him and this place looks to be a great wealth of info.
Need to do regulator in rear right window, need to do rotors & pads out back.
Also have to do a fix of the rear wing grommets as when it is out in weather for a few weeks of vacation to Maine, tends to hold water in lid then dries up.

As for the new used STS for me, it should provide many miles of problems & joy wrapped up into a package of rear wheel drive and dollar bills flying out the window!


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:00 pm 
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Certified Bonneville Nut
Certified Bonneville Nut
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 5827
Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
Poncho72 wrote:
Funny you mention with regard to performance / reliability as to what I want out of it. I will take what it gives me as it fits the bill, big car, very good power. It really is a question of how much problems and money spent does anyone want to put up with before selling it.

Otherwise, time to get a loan, slap 10$k down on a used G8 low miles or a 3 year old SS sedan. Be done and pay the piper each month.
Looked at a Lacrosse Super, and tell you what, nice car, small like my GP, but again, little chinks and chunks of problems listed all over the forums, displacement on demand issues, lifter problems, oiling issues on the LS4 etc. So, age old problem of wanting something fun, but GM kills us with reliability issues.
Camry SE is about as fun as watching paint dry. If you want to have no love for what you drive, buy a boring Asian brand on the small and full size platforms. Besides Asian brand supercars, they are all dull brands and no experience behind the wheel.

I just sold a 2004 GP GTP with 34k or so on it. At 29k, the heads went on a supercharged engine. Not the usual intake stuff, the head gaskets went.
Not a cheap fix. So knowing what I dealt with on that car, it really does not bother me if I go to a N*. Just the whining bitches I have for friends who work on the stuff for me. I can do light to medium stuff, interior work, brakes, lines, some other stuff if I take the time and have the time.

I think the answer will be for the price of the car going in, knowing stuff will go on and enjoy the ride while I have it should I go for the GXP


With that mindset, you'll never buy anything from any manufacturer as no one has made a perfect car. When reading message forums, you have to keep in mind, most people post to complain. You'll rarely ever see post after post of people raving about their car. It's usually a list of problems and resultant complaints. I worked on GM vehicles for a living, trust me, I've seen about every fault they all have yet I still buy them and then even the problem children... "X" motors, N*'s, and I HAVE one of those LS4 cars in my driveway. Car is just about to 115k. In that 115k it's needed nothing more than regular maintenance and the only times it's been back to a dealer for warranty or recall work, was a rear control arm and recently the electronic pedal assembly. Not any problems with the engine or trans. Otherwise it's been stone cold reliable, drives tight, is whisper quiet at highway speeds, and can still scoot yet got 26mpg on a cross-country trip. Not saying all LS4's or similar GenIV V8 powered vehicles with D.O.D. are fault free, but reality is, in comparison to the total number of them out there, the problem children are statistically small.

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Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:58 pm 
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Certified Bonneville Nut
Certified Bonneville Nut
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:32 pm
Posts: 4759
Location: SE Michigan
Year and Trim: '99 Montana
'04 Dirtymax
'97 Camaro
'92 Trofeo
I approve, having just purchased my own STS (AWD, V8)!

_________________
Boost addict
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The Fleet:
'93 SSEi - Twincharged + manual Build thread
'97 Camaro - Top swap
'05 STS - V8, AWD, her DD
'92 Trofeo - Fair weather DD
'99 Montana - top swap 3800
'04 Sierra 2500HD - LLY Duramax

Current project:
Something cool, trust me.

Upcoming projects:
'92 Bonneville SSE
'87 LeSabre T-type
'67 LeSabre

Gone to greener pastures:
'84 Sierra Classic - Twin turbo 3800
'97 LeSabre - Top swap

RIP:
'86 LeSabre - pictures
'93 SE - L67


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 11:31 pm 
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Certified Bonneville Nut
Certified Bonneville Nut
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 5827
Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
We're all either getting STS's or G8's :)

_________________
Image

Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:36 am 
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Resident Gearhead
Resident Gearhead

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:11 pm
Posts: 2594
Location: Alberta, Canada
Year and Trim: 2004 GXP, 2008 STS, 2020 XT6
I love my STS, but I have no plans to get rid of the GXP. Both cars are fantastic in their own, different ways. I like the looks of the G8 exterior but I'm really not a fan "overall". If the right opportunity came up, I may buy one. I don't have that itch for one though, not like my STS or GXP. I always really wanted those. I'd have to say that the STS has been a lot harder on the pocket book for maintenance. More problems, not cheap to repair.

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Bose Luxury Sound System w/Touch Screen Navigation, Addition of Factory XM, 2005 MY Antenna, OnStar Upgrade (3G),
RainSense Wipers, Backup Camera, '00 Style Door Panel Courtesy Lights, Heated Washer Solvent, 2X Remote Trunk Release,
Turn Signal Mirrors, Center Console Courtesy Lamp, Rear Outboard Heated Seats, PVD Chrome 18" Factory Rims, Upgraded
Carbon Fibre Appearance Interior Trim, Highly Modified Main Body Harness, Instrument Panel, Door, Door Panel & Headliner
Wiring Harnesses, Custom Fuse Box & Tire and Loading Information Decals, Additional Acoustic Insulation


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:33 am 
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Certified Bonneville Nut
Certified Bonneville Nut
User avatar

Joined: Wed May 13, 2009 10:45 pm
Posts: 5827
Location: CHICAGO
Year and Trim: 2006 STS-V, 2004 GTO, 2009 G8 GT
And that's where I disagree. The G8 is more than just a pretty looker. It's bigger than our STS (in the wheelbase which makes our Bonneville's and STS's rear seat area look tiny by comparison). In GT or GXP form, it is significantly more powerful. And it's chassis is extremely talented.

It's downfall is the lack of creature comforts and toys compared to the STS (in particular), but it truly is a drivers sedan along the vein of BMW's.

The ONLY reasons I picked up my STS-V over a G8 GXP was 1) Prices on G8's are like printing money (especially GXP versions), if you own one and 2) For what I spent, I got a lot more of those features for my dollar.

_________________
Image

Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:40 am 
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Resident Gearhead
Resident Gearhead

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:11 pm
Posts: 2594
Location: Alberta, Canada
Year and Trim: 2004 GXP, 2008 STS, 2020 XT6
Ah yes, but... My personal preferences in a vehicle include:

1. Good looks.
2. "Reasonable" performance and handling.
3. Lots of technology and creature comforts.

This is exactly why the G8 is not high on my list of upcoming acquisitions. As you mentioned, the G8 seems to fail on point #3.

_________________
Image

Bose Luxury Sound System w/Touch Screen Navigation, Addition of Factory XM, 2005 MY Antenna, OnStar Upgrade (3G),
RainSense Wipers, Backup Camera, '00 Style Door Panel Courtesy Lights, Heated Washer Solvent, 2X Remote Trunk Release,
Turn Signal Mirrors, Center Console Courtesy Lamp, Rear Outboard Heated Seats, PVD Chrome 18" Factory Rims, Upgraded
Carbon Fibre Appearance Interior Trim, Highly Modified Main Body Harness, Instrument Panel, Door, Door Panel & Headliner
Wiring Harnesses, Custom Fuse Box & Tire and Loading Information Decals, Additional Acoustic Insulation


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 Post subject: Re: GXP OR NOT TO BE?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:42 pm 
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Resident Gearhead
Resident Gearhead
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Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 10:40 am
Posts: 2069
Location: West Point
Year and Trim: 2003 SSEi
Owning both a G8 GXP and a Bonneville SSEi I can attest to the fact that the SSEi has a more comfortable ride and has oodles more gadgetry than the G8, even in GXP trim. Not much comparison there. On point 1, looks, I think the G8 edges out the Bonnie. The G8, viewed from the front, just reeks of bad-a$$ness. While looks are subjective, people will often do a double-take on the G8. HOWEVER, on point 2 the G8 is orders of magnitude superior to the SSEi. The ride is a bit harsher, but when it's pushed through a corner that little nuisance turns into a grin. Then there's the gas pedal. It's connected directly to your smiling muscles. The the supercharged SSEi pulls pretty good, but the V8 in the G8...SONofa...that thing GOES. Both my cars are pretty much factory stock, so I have a good comparison.

So, option-wise, the SSEi is the winner, hands down. In fact, the SSEi is probably still one of the best optioned cars out there, especially when price is factored in. I mean, crap, my G8 didn't even come with an oil pressure gauge - how stupid is that? So, yeah, the G8 fails miserably on point #3. (The G8 does have a telescoping wheel, though, about the only option not found on the Bonneville). The SSEi is also easier on gas and probably better in the snow. (Can't verify this as the GXP has never been in snow). In all other respects, though, I think I like the G8 better. It's roomier, more fun to drive, and has a much tighter turning radius than the Bonnie (I think my crew cab Silverado has a tighter turning radius than the Bonneville).

......................................Bonneville......G8
Good Looks........................Yes..............Yes
Reasonable performance.........Yes..............Hell Yes (even better for each model in GXP trim)
Tech/Creature Comforts.........Yes..............Meh, not so much

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