I know this has been beat to death but I see people running without them and other say they're necessary for accurate MAF readings.
Is anyone here running a larger one like TRE or Halltech make? I think it would be beneficial and I'm toying with the idea.
Are they worth it? I can see the stock one being a restriction. This would increase air flow while maintaining laminar flow.

_________________
01 Bonneville SLE

Stock one works fine, I wouldn't mess with it.

_________________
-Car Guy Carl
"Penelope" - 2003 SLE - 247k Miles
"Sydney" - 2000 Honda S2000 - 98k miles

Well it's been proven time and again 15-20% more air flow without. Even ZZP did a write up some time ago and suggested removing them.
However I can see the flow and consistent MAF readings being an issue. At least in some cases more than others.
These bigger honeycombed screens would seem to m address both sides.
I believe Willren was going to try one out some time ago and posted a link to them. Just wondering if anyone else has and what the verdict was.
Half of that 15-20% while maintaining or even improving laminar flow for a measley $16 seems like a no brainer.

_________________
01 Bonneville SLE

Air flow as measured by the MAF is, measured in two increments. 1) Quantity (lbs/hr) and 2) speed (Hz).

#1 is the same regardless of what you do. That is determined by the size of the filter area, size of the plumbing, etc... Keeping all that the same and only changing the "direction" more or less isn't going to generate more air flow.

what it will do, is change 2) the speed and consistency of the air across the MAF thermistors since the air is moving in a straighter column flow.

I don't know that it will increase any front wheel dyno power numbers, but being a more consistent path of flow, may ever so slightly improve "driveability" and throttle response more than anything. That last part is what most people will determine to be a "power increase" when it's really not.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

That makes sense.
Well with the Intense FWI changing #1 it would make sense to change #2 as well if possible.
Someone here claimed a considerable and totally unbelievable increase in hp according to live data by removing it. 11hp if I recall. I seriously doubt that nor am I expecting any such increase
I'm thinking that by making better use of the increase in volume with the FWI with the larger screen can only be a good thing.
Even if is just better response. Might even improve on the MAF reading accuracy. I wouldn't doubt maybe 3-5 ponies with the FWI and screen tho. Better response is a plus in my book as well. I'm not looking for track numbers. Just better performance in general.

I don't have live data and was wondering if anyone that does had any numbers. For $16, I'm going to go with it. I'll just have feel to go by tho.

_________________
01 Bonneville SLE

But by changing intakes, #1 (quantity) is the same with that FWI whether it goes across the MAF thermistors straight or with a slight amount of turbulence from an angle.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

So all this about 20% more air flow without a screen is hogwash and no way has anyone increased hp by doing so like ZZP claimed.
Stands to reason if bigger holes don't increase airflow neither will 1 big hole.
But seems to me bigger holes less metal (obstruction) would let that air in there quicker. No obstruction (no screen) even quicker but with turbulence resulting in inaccurate MAF readings meaning improper fuel being added. Hence screen with bigger holes to direct it is better than screen with little holes and/or no screen.
That's my thinking and apparently their's as well albeit right or wrong I guess.
But hell it's $16. Not even an hour's pay so what the hell. Even if it just improves throttle response it's all good.

Thanks for the input and explanations.

_________________
01 Bonneville SLE

Are you saying Intense's FWI adds more flow? Then yes. it does, as does any other FWI or CAI. That is one of the concepts of them. But if you're asking about straightening out the intake path, that has nothing to do with increasing air flow.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

Well just for sh!ts and giggles I took the screen out. Runs and idles perfect. If anything it idles smoother. Goes down the road great. 'Course I have no clue at this point about mpg.
Yes, I understand the concept of FWIs. lol yeah I meant the straightener. Or lack thereof.

_________________
01 Bonneville SLE

As I re-read this, I think I am confusing what you meant by "straightener"

I thought you meant adding a piece of intake to allow for a straighter path into the TB and then the MAF (almost like a ram air type of setup, just without the open facing exposure to fresh air), as opposed to having the bend shortly out of the TB.

Sounds like you're talking about something like the silly honeycomb screen that GM puts in barrel style MAF's (which aren't used on these cars) to help focus air across the thermistors in the MAF itself.

If this is what you're referring too, then yes, you will get more " free-er flow" across the MAF's thermistors by removing it (especially if the screen is directly in front of them), which will smoothen idle and perhaps sharpen throttle response as air moves more freely across those thermistors. It's more or less simple blockage in it's attempt to straighten the airflow and turbulence in an OEM intake that uses a panel filter. By going FWI with a straight tube, and a cone filter, you remove much if that turbulence and have fairly straight and even airflow. But for the record, you still aren't getting any more flow than what the intake (be it stock or aftermarket), can provide.

This is the screen I think you're referring to, something like this anyway. Any MAF like this that I have, I have removed the screen;


Your actual MAF for a 3800 looks like this though;

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

GM made them without the screen for a number of years. The screen- as stated is supposed to help with airflow, only really acts as a buffer for large debris getting past a badly damaged or incorrectly installed filter or broken filter box, etc. I wouldn't expect 11hp just by removing the honeycomb. I'd have a hard time thinking that any throttle body alone is going to increase hp by 11. And any HP you might gain, is only going to be at top RPM where turbulence/restrictions are going to be more pronounced.

_________________
A temporary fix does not exist. It becomes a solution until it needs to be fixed again.

https://photos.google.com/album/AF1QipOYkkevV0gKTHc_8Cstuy8yS1Qyx6SiIKeTzuHy

I kind of figured the design of the Intense FWI would really cut down on the turbulence in comparison to the stock air box and that gawd awful accordion attached to the throttle body? Appears to be even better than expected.
The screen (air straightener) in our throttle body just before our MAF is the same thing even tho it's not actually part of the MAF. It sits in the throttle body and does the same thing and is approximately the same distance from the thermistors (should be 1-3 inches from what I can gather)
Several places make replacements with varying sized holes bigger than the stock one as well as different depths. I had planned on one of these til I ran without one. In light of how well it runs and idles I'm fairly certain my MAF readings are good but I'll probably verify this.
Now different FWIs or CAIs or the stock air box may not do so well without one. A rough idle is a pretty sure indication your MAF readings are all over the place.

_________________
01 Bonneville SLE

If any sizable piece of debris were to strike it, it wouldn't protect much and may actually create more damage banging into the thermistors and their support bars. Those screens have the rigidity of a piece of paper.

Some GM vehicles didn't, that is correct, but 95% did and even aftermarket hi-performance units, like SLP also had it.

An SLP 85mm MAF (I have one if anyone wants to buy it...)

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

Haha! Exactly! A piece of paper! I dont think they were intended to keep debris out.

From what I understand, our MAF sensors are good up to like 500hp which we will never come close to anyway. An upgrade would be much like the one you have there and come in some model of a Chevy Truck that I don't recall. So I'd take that off your hands except it would do me no good since I'd have a hard time even hitting 300hp. lol
I see you even have the wiring harness adapter which would be necessary for these cars.

The point of this thread was they make these screens or straighteners with bigger holes that allow for freer airflow while still directing it for those that might need it such as those running the OE airbox or anyone using a FWI/CAI that has whacked out MAF readings without one. But if you're happy with the stock one by all means.
Lucky for me I don't need one. lol

_________________
01 Bonneville SLE

Yes, 500 - 550. However, many in the GenIII and GenIV V8 world go bigger more to keep the diameter consistency with any aftermarket Intake plenum (think FAST intake)

I'm running my OEM MAF on a heads/cam/headered/tuned LS1 that I did 415 at the rear wheels. Figure @ 80% loss, that would equate to somewhere between 515 - 520 at the crank. Many tuners also prefer the OEM MAF in many tuning scenarios.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

One of these days I'll have something pushing that kind of hp again. It will most likely be something older tho. Or possibly what we in the big truck world call a glider...newer car, older drive train. To stay out of all the emissions crap that rob us of power and reliability. But that's another thread.

_________________
01 Bonneville SLE

You're right, that is another thread, but I don't get the fight. Modern emissions controlled vehicles aren't being "robbed" of power. If anything, they're a great tuning device. One can make a lot of power nowadays, be completely emissions compliant and get great fuel economy by using those emissions controls to fine tune things with a PC.

I remember, back when I had my Camaro at the drag strip (the Camaro was also heads & cam, headered, etc, on that LS1 and put down identical power numbers), pulling up out of the water box, next to a '53 Corvette with a 502 and a big Wieand bug catcher. I'm thinking to myself that I'm gonna get waxed by this thing. Christmas tree went down, we both launched and I went balls out as hard as my little LS1 could... And I walked him down the track. I ran something like an 11.6 and he just cracked into the 12's. He hunted me down in the pits to ask me "WTF do you have in that thing?!" The best part about it, was being able to drive mine home, getting 26mpg, while he had to trailer his because it's has the driveability of a lawn tractor and gets 2 mpg.

I love an old school BBC as much as the next guy, but times and technology have progressed.

People complain about taking the emissions tests. Newflash, it is COMPLETELY painless. The toughest part... Waiting in line! Taking the test itself is less than 5 minutes. They plug into your DLC port and you're on your way.

Again, a heads/cammed/headered/no cats car and I pass without question. The wait time that day was less than 3 minutes.

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

And then I stumbled on this article on R&T today. All hail the modern GM small-block V8;

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture ... -ls-swaps/

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck

LSing everything works but it's done sooo much. ZZzzz. That said, there is a reason for it and they handle boost really well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo3kZ8wbnkA
9xx whp with stock heads and headgaskets on a 6.0l. That dude slams LS' in old *shoot* boxes with missed matched heads, Chinese turbos, etc. and still runs tens.

The Truck vs. 350z comparison was a little odd.. It does well for a V6. 30 mpg and high 12s if I do slicks with my stock head/cams VQ35.

_________________

95 SLE... a keeper. 241k miles. Low and Slow.
97 BMW 528i
98 Infiniti vq35'd i30: 13.3@104mph, 30MPG Hwy (RIP)
02 Jag X-type
03 BMW M5
05 Chevy Cobalt LS
07 Infiniti G35s 6MT (Sold)
07 Ducati Monster S2R 800 with DS1000 swap
83 Yamaha IT175K
72 Yamaha DS7: '74 RD250 swap, JL chambers

Info on dropping a 92-99: Here.

Hey, when it works, it works...

I'd throw a GenIII/GenIV motor on my lawn tractor if I could... (and yes, I know stuff like that has been done )

_________________


Retired Bonneville Owner and former GM Tech:
2004 Pontiac Bonneville GXP: Black/Ebony *SOLD*

Summer Toys: Combined 827 RWHP / 877lb/ft RWTQ
2004 Pontiac GTO: Impulse Blue Metallic/Black/M6: lots 'o mods, 415 RWHP / 405lb/ft RWTQ!
2006 Cadillac STS-V: Light Platinum Metallic/Light Gray/A6 - Spectre CAI, Magnaflow exhaust, Speed Inc. tune, 412 RWHP / 472lb/ft RWTQ

Daily Drivers:
2019 Chrysler Pacifica Limited: Mommy's new RGC
2015 Chrysler Town & Country Limited Platinum: Kids new RGC
2007 Chrysler Town & Country Limited: Sold to neighbor
2009 Pontiac G8 GT: L76, Sport Red Metallic
2003 Chevrolet Suburban 2500: Doeskin Tan - 8.1L Big Block... new plow truck
1999 Chevrolet Suburban: Sunset Gold Metallic - Daddy's winter beater and plow truck